23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 10, 2020 4:40 AM by Becky Angle

    Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records

    Becky Angle Newbie
    Becky Angle Nov 14, 2020 3:27 PM

      Hi, Does anyone have any information of tracing relatives who came from Wales (UK) over to Boston, probably from the port of Liverpool in England to maybe New York for onward transmission to Boston??  I have been unable to trace any records, despite looking at Passenger Lists. From what I have read, if my relative was travelling 'steerage' they are not listed on the passenger list?  Would there have been any other documentation if this is the case? Their occupation was an iron moulder in the census, would this constitute travelling 'steerage'?? Also, I have located my relative in several early censuses but following marriage (Roman Catholic) in 1925 (have found marriage entry) - he seems to have disappeared - no trace in any further census or death records. Any help, much appreciated.  Thank you in anticipation.

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        • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
          Susannah Brooks Tracker
          Susannah Brooks Nov 15, 2020 12:55 PM (in response to Becky Angle)

          Steerage passengers definitely were listed on passenger arrival lists.  Since the lists were created either when the person purchased their ticket or boarded the ship, their name would be that used in their country of origin. 

          If you would like to share the person's name, approximate birth year,place they lived in the US and spouses name, one or more of us will help look for additional records for the person

            • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
              Becky Angle Newbie
              Becky Angle Nov 15, 2020 8:20 PM (in response to Susannah Brooks)

              Hi Susannah

               

              Thank you so much for your reply and offer of help which I would be most grateful for, having hit that brick wall!!

               

              There is so much information on the net, some very confusing info as well!

               

              My great, great uncle - John Barry was born in Cardiff, Glamorganshire, South Wales, UK between 1863 - 1867.

              Looking at the US census returns - the emigration dates given were 1884, 1885 and 1888 - take your pick!!!

               

              My relative returned twice to the UK in 1897 (upon death in Cardiff of his father) and again during WW1 - I have managed to find the two emigration records for these dates through Family Search.org which has been a brilliant tool.  Not sure where he arrived in the US in 1897 but in 1918 on his return to Boston, he arrived at Ellis Island which of course was being used then.

               

              It's a mystery why I can't find his emigration record but I have found so many discrepancies in the census, particularly regarding where he came from - think the enumerators thought everyone with an Irish accent was from Ireland when in fact they may have been from England or Wales - I did find that one of the census showed him as being from England so I have done several searches to include him coming in from Wales, England and Ireland but to no avail!!!  The correct place of birth is of course Cardiff but is being shown as Wales on the census, if that helps.

               

              Please let me know if you need any more info.

               

              Maybe fresh eyes .........  any help, very much appreciated.

               

              Are you 'Stateside'??

               

              Kindest

               

              Becky

                • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                  Susannah Brooks Tracker
                  Susannah Brooks Nov 18, 2020 7:35 PM (in response to Becky Angle)

                  Since I was getting nowhere trying to figure out how to identify your John Barry among all the English and Irish people in the same age group, arriving in the same 4 year period, with the same name, I tried another approach.  I did a search on Ancestry.com of passenger arrivals 1884-1888 with no names or ages and only listed Wales as the exact birthplace.  I got 738 hits: 3 arrivals in NY and each listed their nationality as English; 2 in Michigan with Wales as birthplace & nationality Canadian; & 733 arriving in Philadelphia listing birthplace as Wales.  What this tells me is the Philadelphia was the only port that consistently use "Wales" (rather than England or Ireland) for those of Welsh origin during this time period.  If he became a US citizen, especially if he waited until the 20th C, his declaration and/or petition may contain the name of the ship or a more exact date of immigration.

                  To answer your question, yes I live in the US.

                    • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                      Becky Angle Newbie
                      Becky Angle Nov 19, 2020 2:32 PM (in response to Susannah Brooks)

                      Hi Susannah

                       

                      Many, many thanks for going to the trouble of searching for me.  It is so frustrating when  records show 'England' as I guess they lumped Wales into the English category some of the time, particularly if the immigrant travelled from their birth place to the main departure point, which I understand was Liverpool in England (not anywhere in Wales)  even though they actually lived in Wales!!!  Looking at the post 1890 immigration trips that John took back to the UK, it was indeed Liverpool that he alighted not from anywhere in Wales.  From the information I have gleaned so far, records were much improved from 1890 onwards and particularly from 1892 when I believe, passengers were 'processed' at Ellis Island so looks like I am a few years too early  to find the records, presumeably at Castle Gardens which was used up until 1890 I believe.   I know he ended up in Bosstton but I presume immigrants all had to be processed at Castle Garden for onward transmission to their final destination!!  Do you know if that would have been the case or could he have disembarked in Boston at that time period?  Looking at the information on Family Search, some skilled immigrants were given 'assisted passage' instead of poor relief as I doubt the family in Cardiff had much money but I haven't been able to find out anything about that.

                       

                      Looking at all the US census that I can find (he seems to have disappeared in the 1920 census!) - he did not take up Citizenship but remained an 'Alient' so sadly I won't be able to look at those records either.  Sometimes, our ancestors just don''t want to be found!!!  I have narrowed his death years to between 1925 (when he married for 2nd time in Somerville, Middlesex) and his 'wife' was widowed in the 1930 census in Dorchester and living with her youngest son from a previous marriage.

                      Are the death records for that period not available at the moment due to the 100 year rule?  He was of Catholic faith as the family in Cardiff (Wales) were of that denomination and I note from his marriage record, he was married in St Patrick's Rectory in Roxbury (Catholic).

                      Any further info, very, very much appreciated.

                       

                      Are you seeking any UK relatives???

                       

                      Kindest

                       

                      Becky

                • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                  Cara Jensen Tracker
                  Cara Jensen Expert Nov 17, 2020 1:53 PM (in response to Becky Angle)

                  Dear Ms. Angle,

                   

                  Thank you for posting your request on History Hub!

                   

                  We suggest that you review these Genealogy: Passenger Arrival List Research Tips  for suggestions on how to locate immigration information for John Barry.  There are numerous ways that individuals could enter the United States from Europe such as on a ship that arrived at various coastal ports or over land from Canada, etc. Ship passenger arrival lists were a requirement beginning in 1820, but that does not guarantee that person was recorded or that the list still exists. Many of the passenger lists have been digitized and are name-searchable online using Ancestry and FamilySearch.  There may be a fee for using Ancestry. Instead, you may wish to contact your local library. Many library systems subscribe to these sites, making them free for patrons.

                   

                  You may also wish to search the Passenger Search - The Statue of Liberty & Ellis Island, which contains 65 million records covering passengers arriving at the Port of New York from 1820 to 1957, for the additional records of John Barry as well as review the NARA publication on Immigration Records and the FamilySearch research wiki on Wales Emigration and Immigration.

                   

                  We suggest that you contact the Registry of Vital Records and Statistics to request a search for the death record of John Barry as well as review the FamilySearch Research wiki for Massachusetts Vital Records.

                   

                  We hope this is helpful. Best of luck with your family research!

                   

                  • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                    Becky Angle Newbie
                    Becky Angle Nov 18, 2020 7:26 AM (in response to Becky Angle)

                    Thank you so very much for all this useful information.  There is so much out there to digest! Could I trouble you to enquire if you have any information on finding death records 1925-1930 for Massachusetts (Somerville, Roxbury and Dorchester)? The online records only seem to go as far as 1920, presuming they are still 'closed' as less than 100 years?  Any help much appreciated.

                    • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                      Timothy McGoldrick Adventurer
                      Timothy McGoldrick Nov 17, 2020 6:02 PM (in response to Becky Angle)

                      On FindmyPast for John Barry born between 1863-1867  in Cardiff, Glamorganshire Wales there are 94 records. If you know his father's and mother's name I maybe able to find the correct record. On his arrival in 1918 on Jul 30, 1918 on the ship Lapland in New York at the top of the manifest it stated  List of Alien Passengers  under Married or Single he is listed as Wdr  which I think it means Widower, his occupation is listed as Iron Molder and for his nearest contact he lists his Brother  Patrick Barry, 2, Penlyn St., Routh, England.

                      Tim  

                      • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                        Alice Lane Navigator
                        Alice Lane Nov 19, 2020 11:21 PM (in response to Becky Angle)

                        Hi Becky,

                        Welcome to History Hub

                        Hopefully these are your family. Found on family searc.

                         

                        marriage of john and margaret barry Aug 1,1889-Fall River, Mass

                        https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW5Q-G5Q

                         

                        marriage certificate for John Barry and Mary Pierce Oct 14, 1925

                        https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BN-Y97C-7?cc=1469062&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQ28K-CSBY

                         

                        john barry, birth registration=1865

                        https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2X94-X2C

                         

                        Alice Lane

                        Research Volunteer

                        • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                          Becky Angle Newbie
                          Becky Angle Nov 21, 2020 5:42 AM (in response to Becky Angle)

                          Hi all my very helpful fellow ancestor fans!   - Just a thought on finding the illusive John Barry - does anyone have access to Roman Catholic parish death records for 1925 -1930 for this area i.e. Somerville, Roxbury or Dorchester?

                          If he remained in the area of marriage in 1925, there may be records in St Patrick's Recory (Roxbury) records?

                          Or what about any obituaries in any of the local papers for these areas?  Does anyone have access to a subscription site such as Genealogy Bank which I believe may hold some clues???

                           

                          Thanking you all very much in anticipation.

                           

                          Kindest

                           

                           

                          Becky

                          • Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
                            Becky Angle Newbie
                            Becky Angle Dec 10, 2020 4:41 AM (in response to Becky Angle)

                            Thank you to everyone who has helped in the family history search!! Very much appreciated.

                            Kindest

                            Becky