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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Susannah Brooks Nov 15, 2020 12:55 PM (in response to Becky Angle)Steerage passengers definitely were listed on passenger arrival lists. Since the lists were created either when the person purchased their ticket or boarded the ship, their name would be that used in their country of origin.
If you would like to share the person's name, approximate birth year,place they lived in the US and spouses name, one or more of us will help look for additional records for the person
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 15, 2020 8:20 PM (in response to Susannah Brooks)Hi Susannah
Thank you so much for your reply and offer of help which I would be most grateful for, having hit that brick wall!!
There is so much information on the net, some very confusing info as well!
My great, great uncle - John Barry was born in Cardiff, Glamorganshire, South Wales, UK between 1863 - 1867.
Looking at the US census returns - the emigration dates given were 1884, 1885 and 1888 - take your pick!!!
My relative returned twice to the UK in 1897 (upon death in Cardiff of his father) and again during WW1 - I have managed to find the two emigration records for these dates through Family Search.org which has been a brilliant tool. Not sure where he arrived in the US in 1897 but in 1918 on his return to Boston, he arrived at Ellis Island which of course was being used then.
It's a mystery why I can't find his emigration record but I have found so many discrepancies in the census, particularly regarding where he came from - think the enumerators thought everyone with an Irish accent was from Ireland when in fact they may have been from England or Wales - I did find that one of the census showed him as being from England so I have done several searches to include him coming in from Wales, England and Ireland but to no avail!!! The correct place of birth is of course Cardiff but is being shown as Wales on the census, if that helps.
Please let me know if you need any more info.
Maybe fresh eyes ......... any help, very much appreciated.
Are you 'Stateside'??
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Susannah Brooks Nov 18, 2020 7:35 PM (in response to Becky Angle)Since I was getting nowhere trying to figure out how to identify your John Barry among all the English and Irish people in the same age group, arriving in the same 4 year period, with the same name, I tried another approach. I did a search on Ancestry.com of passenger arrivals 1884-1888 with no names or ages and only listed Wales as the exact birthplace. I got 738 hits: 3 arrivals in NY and each listed their nationality as English; 2 in Michigan with Wales as birthplace & nationality Canadian; & 733 arriving in Philadelphia listing birthplace as Wales. What this tells me is the Philadelphia was the only port that consistently use "Wales" (rather than England or Ireland) for those of Welsh origin during this time period. If he became a US citizen, especially if he waited until the 20th C, his declaration and/or petition may contain the name of the ship or a more exact date of immigration.
To answer your question, yes I live in the US.
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 19, 2020 2:32 PM (in response to Susannah Brooks)Hi Susannah
Many, many thanks for going to the trouble of searching for me. It is so frustrating when records show 'England' as I guess they lumped Wales into the English category some of the time, particularly if the immigrant travelled from their birth place to the main departure point, which I understand was Liverpool in England (not anywhere in Wales) even though they actually lived in Wales!!! Looking at the post 1890 immigration trips that John took back to the UK, it was indeed Liverpool that he alighted not from anywhere in Wales. From the information I have gleaned so far, records were much improved from 1890 onwards and particularly from 1892 when I believe, passengers were 'processed' at Ellis Island so looks like I am a few years too early to find the records, presumeably at Castle Gardens which was used up until 1890 I believe. I know he ended up in Bosstton but I presume immigrants all had to be processed at Castle Garden for onward transmission to their final destination!! Do you know if that would have been the case or could he have disembarked in Boston at that time period? Looking at the information on Family Search, some skilled immigrants were given 'assisted passage' instead of poor relief as I doubt the family in Cardiff had much money but I haven't been able to find out anything about that.
Looking at all the US census that I can find (he seems to have disappeared in the 1920 census!) - he did not take up Citizenship but remained an 'Alient' so sadly I won't be able to look at those records either. Sometimes, our ancestors just don''t want to be found!!! I have narrowed his death years to between 1925 (when he married for 2nd time in Somerville, Middlesex) and his 'wife' was widowed in the 1930 census in Dorchester and living with her youngest son from a previous marriage.
Are the death records for that period not available at the moment due to the 100 year rule? He was of Catholic faith as the family in Cardiff (Wales) were of that denomination and I note from his marriage record, he was married in St Patrick's Rectory in Roxbury (Catholic).
Any further info, very, very much appreciated.
Are you seeking any UK relatives???
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Susannah Brooks Nov 20, 2020 12:27 AM (in response to Becky Angle)-
Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 20, 2020 12:19 PM (in response to Susannah Brooks)Hi Susannah
Thanks for sending the actual index - confusing as his marriage in 1925 was in Roxbury, he was living in Somerville and his bride, Mary living in Dorchester. He didn't have any middle initial as far as I know so that whittles it down to only a few of the right age group which would have been about 65 ish in 1930 as according to the 1925 marriage, he was 60.
However, I would have gone for Somerville as the correct age and place but there is a middle initial for that one!!!
Think we are getting warmer!!!
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Cara JensenNov 17, 2020 1:53 PM (in response to Becky Angle)
Dear Ms. Angle,
Thank you for posting your request on History Hub!
We suggest that you review these Genealogy: Passenger Arrival List Research Tips for suggestions on how to locate immigration information for John Barry. There are numerous ways that individuals could enter the United States from Europe such as on a ship that arrived at various coastal ports or over land from Canada, etc. Ship passenger arrival lists were a requirement beginning in 1820, but that does not guarantee that person was recorded or that the list still exists. Many of the passenger lists have been digitized and are name-searchable online using Ancestry and FamilySearch. There may be a fee for using Ancestry. Instead, you may wish to contact your local library. Many library systems subscribe to these sites, making them free for patrons.
You may also wish to search the Passenger Search - The Statue of Liberty & Ellis Island, which contains 65 million records covering passengers arriving at the Port of New York from 1820 to 1957, for the additional records of John Barry as well as review the NARA publication on Immigration Records and the FamilySearch research wiki on Wales Emigration and Immigration.
We suggest that you contact the Registry of Vital Records and Statistics to request a search for the death record of John Barry as well as review the FamilySearch Research wiki for Massachusetts Vital Records.
We hope this is helpful. Best of luck with your family research!
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 18, 2020 7:26 AM (in response to Becky Angle)Thank you so very much for all this useful information. There is so much out there to digest! Could I trouble you to enquire if you have any information on finding death records 1925-1930 for Massachusetts (Somerville, Roxbury and Dorchester)? The online records only seem to go as far as 1920, presuming they are still 'closed' as less than 100 years? Any help much appreciated.
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Timothy McGoldrick Nov 19, 2020 6:27 PM (in response to Becky Angle)Hi Becky,
Found the following on Ancestry - Massachusetts, U.S., Death Index, 1901-1980
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/3659/ However this is a Index it only provides the person's name and middle initial and year of death no age, day or month of death. Another problem is that Roxbury and Dorchester are one of the 23 official neighborhoods of Boston, I did find Somerville in the index but not Roxbury or Dorchester so most likely a person listed death as Boston could also mean Roxbury or Dorchester. If you know his middle name it could help. Searching the above list for John Barry from 1925 to 1930 there are 17 John Barry's some with a middle initial 16 in Boston and 1 in Somerville.
Tim
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 20, 2020 12:36 PM (in response to Timothy McGoldrick)Hi Tim
Many thanks you are on the same thread as Susannah which means there are only a few Johns on that list with no middle initial between 1925 - 30 in their 60s. Scituate looks promising?? Is that place anywhere near Somerville or Dorchester I wonder?!! Thank you again. Kindest
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Cara JensenNov 24, 2020 11:17 AM (in response to Becky Angle)
Dear Ms. Angle,
Thank you for posting your follow-up requests on History Hub!
In Massachusetts, the original vital record still is located at the clerk’s office of the town or city. All the records back to the earliest settlement of a town may be viewed at the town or city clerk’s office. Vital Records from 1841 to 1925 are housed at the Massachusetts Archives, and from 1926 to the present are located at the Registry of Vital Records and Statistics.
We suggest that you contact the Archdiocese of Boston Archives or search the FamilySearch index for Massachusetts, Church Records, 1630-1943 to locate additional records. We also suggest that you search the Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers for possible information on John Barry.
We hope this is helpful. Best of luck with your family research!
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 24, 2020 2:39 PM (in response to Cara Jensen)Hi Cara
Many thanks for these links - I have a lot of searching still to do but pushing the penny closer to the edge .....!!
It's great having this facility and so many people have been so helpful, which is much appreciated.
As I am UK based, it is great having help 'Stateside' as I am not familiar with the areas.
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Timothy McGoldrick Nov 17, 2020 6:02 PM (in response to Becky Angle)On FindmyPast for John Barry born between 1863-1867 in Cardiff, Glamorganshire Wales there are 94 records. If you know his father's and mother's name I maybe able to find the correct record. On his arrival in 1918 on Jul 30, 1918 on the ship Lapland in New York at the top of the manifest it stated List of Alien Passengers under Married or Single he is listed as Wdr which I think it means Widower, his occupation is listed as Iron Molder and for his nearest contact he lists his Brother Patrick Barry, 2, Penlyn St., Routh, England.
Tim
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Alice Lane Nov 19, 2020 11:21 PM (in response to Becky Angle)Hi Becky,
Welcome to History Hub
Hopefully these are your family. Found on family searc.
marriage of john and margaret barry Aug 1,1889-Fall River, Mass
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW5Q-G5Q
marriage certificate for John Barry and Mary Pierce Oct 14, 1925
john barry, birth registration=1865
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2X94-X2C
Alice Lane
Research Volunteer
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 20, 2020 12:15 PM (in response to Alice Lane)Hi Alice, thank you - John's 1st marriage was August 1888 and the 2nd is the one you located in 1925, many thanks for looking. Luckily, I found both these records on line.
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 21, 2020 5:42 AM (in response to Becky Angle)Hi all my very helpful fellow ancestor fans! - Just a thought on finding the illusive John Barry - does anyone have access to Roman Catholic parish death records for 1925 -1930 for this area i.e. Somerville, Roxbury or Dorchester?
If he remained in the area of marriage in 1925, there may be records in St Patrick's Recory (Roxbury) records?
Or what about any obituaries in any of the local papers for these areas? Does anyone have access to a subscription site such as Genealogy Bank which I believe may hold some clues???
Thanking you all very much in anticipation.
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Timothy McGoldrick Nov 23, 2020 11:06 PM (in response to Becky Angle)I found on Findagrave 2 postings for John Barry in Boston both from 1928 see links:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201983062/_
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194442727/_
Also one from 1930 a young boy of 2 years. On either of the above links look to the right - See more Barry Memorials In: Ex: Clicking on St. Joseph Cemetery will bring up a list of all persons with the surname -Barry- buried there 255.
Did you ever find where John's second wife is buried? If you know the year of her death you may by finding the the grave by using the See more Barry Memorials.
Some more information that maybe useful
Neighborhoods in Boston - Wikipedia
List of cemeteries in Boston - Wikipedia
Tim
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Nov 24, 2020 2:44 PM (in response to Timothy McGoldrick)Hi Tim
Many thanks for sticking with this - glad you have some 'tools' to check out the records I seek!
Frustrating that those two grave links don't confirm if it's the right one!! Sadly, can't locate anything on his wife other than in the 1930 census as below:
Name: Mary Barry Event Type: Census Event Date: 1930 • Event Place: Boston (Districts 251-500), Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States • Gender: Female Age: 60 Marital Status: Widowed Race: White Race (Original): White Birth Year (Estimated): 1870 Birthplace: Maine • Father's Birthplace: Maine Mother's Birthplace: Maine Relationship to Head of Household: Head Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Head Mary Barry
United States Census, 1930As I am UK based and not familiar with areas, it's a little daunting trying to work this one out!!I was hoping John would be easy to find but apparently not!!!Thanking you once againBecky-
Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Timothy McGoldrick Dec 5, 2020 9:07 PM (in response to Becky Angle)Found some more information on Marry Barry
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
I think I found her Son he is listed as Walter J. Pierce in the 1940 U.S. Census in Boston married with his wife Norma and two sons
Francis 6 and Joseph 3 but NO Mary Barry . I did a search for her in Massachusetts but no results. I also found a obituary for her mother Elizabeth O'Keefe see attachment:
Tim
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Dec 6, 2020 4:15 AM (in response to Timothy McGoldrick)Hi Tim
Wow, thank you Tim.
Walter was indeed her son, Thank goodness for census records!!Sadly I don’t have access through Ancestry to that link re social security, would you possibly be able to cut and paste it so I may be able to get a little closer to working out when she died??
Walter’s children possibly still alive - how are you able to trace in the US??
Thank you so much for digging this up for me, very much appreciated.
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Timothy McGoldrick Dec 8, 2020 11:37 AM (in response to Becky Angle)Hi Becky
I am attaching this info:
Name: Mary Barry [Mary Keife]
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birth Date: 11 May 1872
Birth Place: Calaio, Maine
Father: Patrick W Keife
Mother: Elizabeth Tobin
Notes: Dec 1936, Name listed as Mary Barry
It does not state when see died. See Notes: Dec 1936: Name listed as MARY BARRY so she was alive as of Dec 1936.
The last U.S. Census available for public view is the 1940 census, the 1950 U.S. Census will be available to the public in 2022.On Ancestry they provide - Suggested Records- looking at these records
I found Records for Francis Pierce.
Find a Grave Memorial see link: Francis W Pierce (1933-1997) - Find A Grave Memorial. Frank died in Palm Beach Florida and served in the Untied State Air Force from Oct-10, 1953 to Sep 30, 1957. Could not find any other info if married, children?. Regarding his other brother
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Dec 10, 2020 4:40 AM (in response to Timothy McGoldrick)Hi Tim
Many, many thanks for checking this for me, much appreciated, two heads are definitely better than one when seeking ancestors!!
So glad you have subscription access to these very helpful sites!
is Mary listed on the Find my Grave site as I think you suggested it may mention her husband, John’s death?
do you have any access to Catholic parish records for Somerville and Dorchester to locate John’s death?? I have narrowed this down now to between 1925 and 1930.
Thank you again for your help
Kindest
Becky
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Re: Seeking Welsh relatives on passenger lists & death records
Becky Angle Dec 10, 2020 4:41 AM (in response to Becky Angle)Thank you to everyone who has helped in the family history search!! Very much appreciated.
Kindest
Becky