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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Thomas Whitmore Sep 13, 2019 4:42 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)1 person found this helpfulI believe you are referring to the Manzano Weapons Storage Facility which is / was located on Kirtland AFB, Albuquerque NM.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Sep 13, 2019 10:47 PM (in response to Thomas Whitmore)Yes I am referring to Manzana Weapons Storage Facility. It was also referred to as Manzana Base, when my late husband was stationed there in the mid 1960's, while he was in the Air Force. I was curious as to what type of instruments/equipment would have been used back then, to monitor the base for radiation. My computer searches haven't been successful in finding an answer. I may not know where to look, however. I would appreciate any information.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Michael Barclay Sep 14, 2019 12:56 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)My dad came home from Vietnam in 1967 and was assigned to the 901st MI Detachment at Sandia base, which I believe was co-located with Manzana (and eventually merged). His unit provided counter-intelligence and security for the nuclear programs at these bases.
My dad passed away a few months ago, so I cannot ask him anything about the bases. I did read an account of another intelligence specialist in a book excerpt who was assigned there in the late 60s who conducted security exercises at both facilities. I will see if i can find the book. I don't know if it will shed any light on what you are searching for, but maybe it will give you some leads.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Sep 18, 2019 12:49 PM (in response to Michael Barclay)Thank you for your response. Please accept my condolences on the loss of your father. It is very difficult when the ones we love are no longer with us. My husband passed away 2 years ago at the age of 72. We had been married for 49 years.
I would be very grateful if you could find the name of the book you mentioned. It just might provide some historical information on Manzano Base. It was a long time before I knew about the nuclear weapons stored at Manzano Base. My husband and I didn't marry until he was out of the service. At that time he was pretty careful in talking about the Base.
I wondered what type of requirements were in place during the 1960's (and devices/equipment used) to check for radiation at Manzano and other nuclear weapons bases. I would appreciate any references pertaining to this subject.
Thank you again for your response.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Michael Barclay Oct 19, 2019 3:38 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)1 person found this helpfulMarilyn,
I am sorry this took so long to find. I could not recall which specific search terms originally led me to this book excerpt, but I was able to eventually find my way back to it. The book is called "A Gun and Cherries in the Bucket of Blood" by Greg Casadei. The author recounts stories of his family and their experiences as Italian-Americans. One of his relatives served in Military Intelligence at Manzano. The link below should take you to the relevant excerpt about Manzano.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Jason AtkinsonSep 23, 2019 8:24 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)
2 people found this helpfulDear Ms. Kirkley,
Thank you for posting your request on History Hub!
According to the National Archives Catalog Organization Authority Record for Kirtland Air Force Base, the facility was constructed by the Armed Forces Special Weapons Command between 1946 and 1950 and was originally designated “Site Able.” In 1952, it was renamed Manzano Base. In 1971, Manzano Base and Sandia Base was merged into Kirtland Air Force Base. Additional histories about Weapons Storage Sites and Manzano may be found on GlobalSecurity.org.
We searched the National Archives Catalog for records relating to Manzano Base and located Official Publications, 1955 - 1973 and Headquarters Field Command Sandia Base Files, 1951 - 1971 in the records of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (Record Group 374). These records are in the custody of the National Archives at College Park - Textual Reference (RDT2). To access these records, please contact RDT2 via email at archives2reference@nara.gov.
In addition, please contact the Air Force, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, and the Department of Energy to request any related records that may be in their custody.
We hope this information is helpful. Best of luck with your research!
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Sep 24, 2019 1:42 AM (in response to Jason Atkinson)Jason Atkinson,
Thank you for all the references mentioned in your reply! I will surely look into all of them. I have been very grateful for the responses I have received since I posted my request on History Hub. Members of this group seem to be very respectful and helpful in assisting new members (such as myself) in the quest to find answers to posted request.
Again, I thank you.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Oct 27, 2019 6:03 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)1 person found this helpfulMichael,
Thank you for finding this book. I read the available excerpts on the link you provided. What I could read reminded me of what my husband had told me about Manzano base being super secret; and, about the weapon storage areas in the mountains. I want to purchase the book, but it is $23 (paperback) on Amazon. I prefer the book rather than an ebook; but, may have to get the ebook format anyway (much cheaper!). My library system doesn't have it in either format. I really appreciate you getting back with me; and, for taking the time to search for the link to the book.
I am also waiting to hear back from the Air Force on an inquiry made about the base.
Thank you again!
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Tom Mitchell May 1, 2020 6:00 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Marilyn, I was in the AF, stationed at Sandia Base 1969-1972. I worked for DOD DNA. I was a computer operator. For two years an Army Sgt Roger Sorenson and me AF Sgt Tom Mitchell, carrying small arms, picked up punched cards (locked in box) on Sandia Base, drove all the way to Manzano AFB (mostly MPs on this base) We continue to drive inside the mountains, produced reports from the punch cards, and returned to Sandia. We did this twice a day. In 1971, we had a card reader and printer on Sandia Base and did not have to drive to the mountains. In 1972 I was put in charge of merging the data of the bases (Sandia and Kirtland. No more Sandia after the IT merger. From 1974 to 1983 I was employed, as a civilian by the same DOD DNA as a System Analyst.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Jun 11, 2020 6:12 PM (in response to Tom Mitchell)Dear Tom,
Thank you for responding! I just haven't kept up with History Hub, with so much going on in the past 2 months. I am so glad you could add some more information regarding Manzano Base. My late husband was discharged from the AF in Sept, 1967. He had been at Manzano Base for 2 yrs prior to his discharge. I have been attempting to obtain information on the radiation safety procedures provided at Manzano Base during the mid to late 1960's. I have contacted the resources provided by this History Hub group: but, without much success. So much information seems to be archived. Usually one source will refer me to another. It's like a merry-go-round. I'm told that any radiation site inspection reports would have been destroyed by now. I also haven't been able to locate any information on military personnel dosimetry badge requirements during that time period. I plan to get back to my research as soon as I can.
I just thank you so much for describing your Sandia Base experience. I wish I had sent you a "thank you" before now. My regards.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Ernie Gillespie Jan 23, 2021 6:01 AM (in response to Tom Mitchell)Tom Mitchell. I just found your post and was wondering why it was as late as 1971 that you acquired a card reader while at Sandia. I was stationed there 1962 -1965 and we had mucho EAM equipment including card readers, sorters, collaters, and keypunch machines. In fact we had what was then the latest IBM digital storage media, RAMAC - Random Access Storage - and before my separation from the service a small IBM 360 computer with removable disk drives was in place. That being said, I know information about such things was compartmentalized so your section may not have known of this computer capacity.
I do not remember the trip to Manzano as being “all the way”. If memory serves it was just a few minutes Drive.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Aug 15, 2020 1:28 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Dear History Hub,
In addition to my original request regarding looking for information on Manzano AFB in New Mexico, I am seeking any information as to someone who might have been in the 1094 Support Sq. stationed at Manzano AFB New Mexico during the years of 1965-1967.
Thank you,
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
J P Dec 14, 2020 7:36 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Marilyn,
I've got some info on the Manzano Base - wrote a book about Kirtland Air Force Base back in 2016, but I have no idea how to get you my contact info. I've done a book on Holloman Air Force Base and a few others in New Mexico, so I'm well versed in the geographic area. If you find the book, find my name, you can find my website. I have reports from Van Citter's research on the Base, and a few research avenues you can use to get the information you're looking for. I usually use the Freedom of Information Act. Just send me a message through my website.
Joe P.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jan 24, 2021 7:52 PM (in response to J P)Hello, Manzano Base along with several others bases are AEC/DOD DASA instillation with AFSWP a combat operation - the top secret military branch a radiation groups. Please check this link https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004710.pdf for confirmation. Also, note several DoD directive that will help in your understanding of top secret and the need to know:
DoD Directive 5210.2 "SECURITY, ADMINISTRATIVE SECURITY" - Establishes a "Need to Know" before any relevant information can be provided.
DoD Directive 5105.31 "Administrative Arrangements for the Defense Atomic Support Agency" https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004735pdf
Flow chart - https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389023.pdf
I hope this helps
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Dec 27, 2020 11:07 PM (in response to louis mabra)Hello Louis,
Thank you so much for the information and references you included in your response. I have started reading the DoD directives; and, checking the websites you provided.
In my research of Manzano Base (and conversations with several Veterans), and the Era (Viet Nam) in which my late husband served, I have developed a newfound respect for American Veterans (and military). In the line of duty, they face the threat and disasters of combat. But, I had never completely known the extent of the risk of severe illness they face, due to exposures to dangerous materials, radiation, and environmental and occupational hazards. My research has been extremely interesting; and, I've been so grateful for the responses I've received through History Hub.
Again, thank you; and, please accept my deep appreciation for your help.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Dec 31, 2020 11:06 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
Let me know, when your question has been answered for are thousands of article about Manzano Base, AEC/DOD, DASA/AFSWP
These may be of interests
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004079.pdf
Also, here is DoD directives "Need to Know"
Hope this information helps with your understanding of the top secret military branch of the armed service AFSWP a combat organization
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 11, 2021 9:31 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Louis,
I apologize for my delayed response to your post. Thank you so much for the additional reference information. It is very helpful. I am also looking to find the radiation safety precautions that were in place at Manzano Base, for the base and the personnel stationed there, during the mid to late 1960s.
I did find a 2011 National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health investigation report, where they evaluated the Sandia Base in NM (same location as Manzano) for radiation safety precautions for the time period of 1963-2011. The NIOSH investigation was in response to a petition filed by a group of DOE employees. Deficiencies in radiation precautions and record keeping were discovered, especially for the period of 1963-1994.
I am presently reading a 1999 book "Potential Radiation Exposure in Military Operations". It is based on a request made by the U.S. Army Surgeon General to the Medical Follow-up Agency of the Institute of Medicine, regarding military personnel radiation exposure guidelines. Of course this was at the request of the Army (and, much later than the 1960s era); but, it would seem it would have been to the benefit of all branches of the military. It seems improvements were definitely needed.
Again, thank you for the references you have given me. My search for archived information has been a challenge.
Thank You,
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jan 5, 2021 6:58 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)The information you are seeking is with the VA
https://www.va.gov/vetapp08/files1/0807667.txt
https://www.va.gov/vetapp06/files2/0603462.txt
https://www.publichealth.va.gov/docs/radiation/irr_newsletter_aug05.pdf
https://www.publichealth.va.gov/docs/radiation/irr_newsletter_aug05.pdf
https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/radiation/benefits/index.asp
radiation compensation act
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43956.pdf
I would recommend that you file with the VA
Inform them that you late husband's was in the Air Force station at Manzano Base, which is not an Air Force Base, attached a copy of the letter from the secretary of defense dated 1969, which contains all the explanation needed.
Let me know if you need any additional information
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Jan 7, 2021 5:18 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Louis
Thank you for this information; and, thank you for your advice. I had been wondering if other Manzano Base Veterans had been diagnosed with cancer. If a service connected condition doesn't qualify as a VA presumptive disease, it seems the burden of proof falls on the Veteran to prove their cancer was connected to a military service exposure to radiation.
From what I understand not all radiation exposed Veterans had been required to wear a dosimetry device; not even Nuclear Weapons Handlers. It seems a radiation exposed Veteran wasn't required to wear a dosimetry badge if was determined the Veterans exposure would not exceed the allowed annual occupational radiation dose limit. I haven't been able to find any 1960s data to justify how that determination would have been made.
I agree with sending the VA the document you recommended. It will be more difficult for some Veterans, or their families, to file a successful claim for a radiation exposed disease, without a documentation of a service dosimetry history. But, it doesn't mean they shouldn't send the VA as much relevant information and documentation as they can possibly locate. It won't hurt to try.
You have gone out of your way to provide me with information and references. I am so grateful to you; and, for all the History Hub responses to my Manzano Base post inquiry. I'm not sure right now what other information I will be searching for; but, I appreciate that you included I could let you know if I need additional information.
My best, Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jan 7, 2021 11:06 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
The pleasure is all mine
Manzano Base is a AEC/DoD, DASA instillation with military personnel from all major Service Branch, Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines. All assigned to DASA Headquarter (HQ) or Headquarter Field Command (HQFC) Armed Forces Special Weapon Program (AFSWP) a Top Secret military combat branch of the armed services, which operates on a “Need to Know”. All military personnel are assigned to HQ with duty station elsewhere, which means he is in the Top Secret AFSWP branch of the service, working on AEC and DASA contracts per DoD requirements.
You may need to check your husband's full military history including his time with AFSWP. Manzano Base which is absolutely described in full details by the letter from the secretary of defense dated 1969, explaining it’s formation, authority and chain of command
I hope this helps let me know if you need additional information
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Jan 9, 2021 11:32 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Louis,
Again, thank you! Appreciate this additional information.
My Best, Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jan 21, 2021 11:18 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
You may find these DASA AFSWP article interesting
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a412977.pdf
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Jan 24, 2021 7:54 PM (in response to louis mabra)Hello, Thank you! I hope this weekend to finish reading the information you just sent me. I noticed a book, "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons" (by Samuel Glasstone), which was displayed on one of the pages in the DSWA 1947-1997 report. It is a 1964 revision of a 1962 book based on a US Atomic Energy Commission report. Since it was written in the 1960s, I thought it might include some information on the effects that radiation exposure had on our military during the mid to late 1960s. I looked for it on Amazon; but, any available book copies were too far out of my price range.
I have been searching online for any 1950s Health Physics Society recommendations on dosimetry requirements for radiation workers. I had read an article a few months ago that had included some of that info. I thought I had downloaded the article but can't seem to find it. I've had computer issues lately, so it might have gotten deleted somehow. If you run across any 1950s Health Physics Society info, I would appreciate any references to it. (The H. Physics Society was established sometime during the 1950s).
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Ernie Gillespie Jan 25, 2021 8:01 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hi Marilyn;
Radiation exposure was not on the agenda of any organization that I was associated with when I was stationed at Sandia (1962 - 1965) however, I was not directly involved with Manzano. The mandatory monthly “character guidance” sessions focused mainly on security issues and oraL health - dentists were in short supply. My barracks was on Sandia and I traveled to Manzano only a few times. I was not required to wear a dosimeter monitor/badge. I learned of the radiation threat to our health during the Church Committee hearings (I think in the 70s). The entire committee hearings were online and, if memory serves, radiation exposure was discussed along with many other subjects including the CIA MKULTRA initiative.
You may already know that you local library, if affiliated with the national library share program, will try to locate “The Effects of Nuclear Weapons”. I experienced the same difficulty when trying to find books about MKULTRA. I was amazed when my local small town library found every one.
Ernie
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Jan 27, 2021 12:37 PM (in response to Ernie Gillespie)Hello Ernie,
Thank you for responding to my post. I hadn't thought of the Church Committee hearings; but, I will look for them on line. I would really like to know what was discussed about radiation exposure.
Pre-pandemic I visited the library regularly; but, haven't since the beginning of the pandemic. I'll check to see if my library is affiliated with the national share program. There are some resource books I would like to request if this program is available. Other responders to my Manzano Base inquiry have mentioned the library also.
,
As a result of my History Hub Manzano Base inquiry, I have received many excellent internet reference sources. I have been so grateful for the references. My internet searches for information had not previously been very successful.
It is interesting that you had been stationed at Sandia Base during the 1960s. I enjoyed reading your response to my inquiry; and, you gave me some good pointers. You may already know that Mr. Charles Cabler is writing a book on Manzano Base. I don't know if he included Sandia Base in his writings; but, thought I would let you know about his upcoming book.
Thank you again. Please stay safe and well through this viral pandemic.Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Ernie Gillespie Jan 30, 2021 6:49 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hi Marilyn;
You are more than welcome to my response.
Sandia was my first and only assignment - after basic training - in the Army. It was a formidable time for me and it launched my career as a computer professional and later the GI bill help fund college. I still communicate with friends who shared the Sandia experience.
With relation to the Church Committee, there was also a more recent Kennedy (senator) investigation about the CIA and I think there is a section on radiation exposure. I remember the term “total body radiation” in a discussion of medical experiments conducted during the late 40s and 50s.
Ernie
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 1, 2021 6:18 PM (in response to Ernie Gillespie)Hello Ernie,
I am so happy for you on your successful career as a computer professional! My late husband finished his college education through the use of the GI Bill. You were very wise to get into the computer field.
I have read most of a committee hearing that includes some information on "behavioral modification", and mentions the MKULTRA Project. I don't think it was part of the Church Committee Hearings. Sen. Kennedy didn't conduct the hearing; but, was one of the committee members. The hearing information isn't something that's easy to know went on. I haven't made it through the complete hearing info; but, so far I haven't read anything that included radiation. I will continue to search for a hearing conducted by Sen. Kennedy.
Because the Church Committee hearings contain so much info, I will need to see if there is a way to find the info I am interested in. I appreciate that you brought my attention to the hearings. Please take care. And thank you.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Ernie Gillespie Feb 3, 2021 8:49 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hi Marilyn;
Years ago I found documents on the internet that discussed CIA's MKULTRA. Research led me to the Rockefeller and Church Committee investigations (the Kennedy connections is that he held hearings on these subjects in 1975 and 1977) . I did find a web site, Department of Energy, that appears to have some of the same documents. if you have not already explored the site it might be of interest. I have a document that identifies Sandia Base's participation in bomb and fallout (radiation) activities from 1958 to 1965. I would be happy to share.
Ernie
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 4, 2021 11:00 AM (in response to Ernie Gillespie)Hello Ernie,
I would appreciate the Sandia website reference. Information related to Manzano Base is difficult to locate; but, I feel Sandia Base would have been comparative. The Sandia Base name is on some of my husband's military records.
I would also appreciate the link to the hearings documents you mentioned.
Thank you for your help.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Ernie Gillespie Feb 4, 2021 2:09 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hi Marilyn;
Thank you for your posts. The Manzano Base references brought back some good memories.
Ernie
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jan 25, 2021 3:02 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
It is difficult to find any information about Manzano Base, however, Sandia Base was an historic information center (PR) and Field Command you may enjoy a Semi-Annual Historical Report Headquarters Field Command
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004670.pdf
Ionizing Radiation
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jan 25, 2021 7:15 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
A little something about Sandia Corporation
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16340111.pdf
AEC/DoD storage agreement
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16339667.pdf
Manzano Base, 1959, 1962
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004253.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004244.pdf
Linking Legacies Connecting the Cold War Nuclear Weapons Production Processes to Their Environmental Consequences
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16115767.pdf
FC flow charts
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004476.pdf
MEMORANDUM FOR THE CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF 1971
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389325.pdf
0101 1953 TO 1231 1964 HISTORICAL REPORT HEADQUARTER FIELD COMMAND DEFENSE ATOMIC SUPPORT AGENCY MANZANO BASE, ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO 16389264.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389264.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389265.pdf
Consolidated Base Personnel Office (CBPO)
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2019-title32-vol6/pdf/CFR-2019-title32-vol6.pdf
I hope you enjoy the read
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Jan 30, 2021 1:25 PM (in response to louis mabra)Hello Louis,
Thank you. I'm still in the process of reading the references you have posted. I get sidetracked to search for more info on a term, or time period, etc., mentioned in the reference.
Also I'm still trying to digest the document https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16008795.pdf. It is very hard for me to process it in my mind. When I read the first few pages I kept thinking of the 1947 Nuremburg Code! It wasn't until around pg 36 of the pdf before it was mentioned. I didn't get finished reading the pdf; so I am going to re-read it.
Thank you again, Louis.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Feb 1, 2021 1:53 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
Here is something about IVY
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16087106.pdf
Armed Forces 1961, 1962 Medical Symposium
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004484.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389134.pdf
Underground Nuclear Test
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a355749.pdf
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA355750.pdf
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA355751.pdf
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA355752.pdf
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA355753.pdf
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA355754.pdf
Let me know when you have had enough
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
William Brame Jan 28, 2021 12:15 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Found your link in History Hub while trying to decide whether to dispose of some old files: copies of orders from the Headquarters Filed Command, Armed Forces Special Weapons project, Sandia Base, Albuquerque New Mexico. Special Orders 132, dated 5 November 1951, signed by KF Hertford, Colonel, CE Chief of staff for Brigadier General Stranathan covers a wide range of actions in the command. Six Sergeants identified by name had separate rations terminated, and five enlisted were granted separate rations. Major Charles Green was assigned to duty as the Executive Officer for Base Ord (Ordnance). SSGT Roger Wallace and Sgt Arthur Flanagan were assigned as armed guards to escort a prisoner to the 5th Aviation Field Deport Squadron (Prison). 1stLT James Stanley was sent for Temporary Duty at Los Alamos; and several others were sent temporary duty to Special Weapons units in San Bruno California, Patuxent MD, and to HQ in Washington DC. I also have a copy of a Armed Forces Special Weapons Project, Sandia Base Certificate for a non-commissioned officer who completed the "Assemblyman" training course in July 1950. The Certificate is signed by Brigadier General Montague, noted as Commanding in July 1950. Most likely the assembly of nuclear weapons.
Several other orders for the months of August, November, and December 1951 announce conversion of Military Occupational Specialties for members of the HQs Special Weapons Group 8460 AAU, HQs Company, 8460th Special Weapons Group, the 111th Special Weapons Unit, the 1096th USAF SP (Special) Rept Sq (Squadron) and various detachments of the 1096th, and 1097ths USAF units. There are Army, Navy and Air Force service men. both enlisted and officers on these documents. Colonel Oberdeck is noted as the Commander of the Headquarters, Killeen Base, in Killen Texas, and sent people from the 8461st Special Weapons unit to Sandia Base for training / certification (Feb 1953). All of these orders are marked RESTRICTED.
Reading between the lines shows that Sandia Base was a training facility for Special Weapons personnel in all services. That training included assembly of special weapons and probable radiation exposures.
Of the 8 specific individuals I tried to track mentioned on these orders, all were dead. I found one death certificate that indicated respiratory failure, pre-leukemia, and a myleoma????? (bad doctor handwriting) condition. If any of these people on the orders are still alive, they probably will not talk to anyone about their service. They were ordered, and convinced that their service was so classified that they are still at risk of being sent to jail if they talk about their special weapons service. In attempting to assist a veteran with a radiation exposure claim related to "Bugcatcher mssions", where the Air Force flew specially equipped weather recon planes (WRB-57) into Chinese and Russian nuclear test radiation clouds in the 50s and early 60s. While the military was aware of radiation hazard during this time, there was no good way to measure radiation exposure, and no basis to predict how much exposure would, or could lead to future medical problems.
The veteran I was helping described a dosimeter he wore during his decontamination duties at Yokata Japan in 1962 and 1963. I sent him to the Oak Ridge National Laboratory Museum and he identified the dosimeter he used as a Radiac DT60/PD Personnel Dosimeter. A reader allows an estimate of exposure measured in roentgen (equivalent to rad used below) .
Fast forward to late 70s and early 80s physics, I know the glass / film inside this dosimeter measured (primarily) gamma and X-ray radiation exposure, and would not accurately reflect radiation exposure from the alpha and beta particles found in the fall-out the veteran was washing from the Bugcatcher aircraft. Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory did a field study of the DT60 in Sept 1959 and found that gamma, neutron and x-ray responses from 25 to 600 rads at energies in excess of 200 kev were found to be within 20 percent (accurate) in 92 of the 160 dosimeters examined. (This was generally favorable report but demonstrates that in 1959, we still didn't have a good understanding of the effects of radiation on the body. A current CAT Scan exposes a person to .01 mSv of radiation. Over a year, the average person gets 3 (three) mSv of radiation exposure from the sun & cosmic radiation which is equivalent to .30 rem. For practical purposes, rem and rad are the same. One measures actual radiation, and the other describes the biological impact of that same amount of radiation. Bottom line is that 1960s dosimeters could only measured radiation doses whose energy levels greatly exceeded what is considered safe today for medical exposure.)
Returning to the reluctance of individuals involved in special weapons to talk about their service, two years after my dealings with the veteran from the 56th Weather Recon Squadron, I met another veteran from the same unit who had a little overlap in time with my first veteran. When I asked him what he knew about the BugCatcher missions, he became highly indignant, remined me of the Atomic Energy Act, and told me he was going to report me to the FBI. He left my office convinced that I was an irresponsible idiot for talking about Bugcatcher and possibly a spy.
Manzana Base was part of, or at least controlled by Sandia Base which totally surrounded Manzana. 1970s vintage maps show a weapons storage are within Sandia Base which is most likely the Manzana Base. In 1971, Kirtland AFB took control of both Manzana and Sandia. Confusing??? Consider this a part of inter service rivalry. Sandia Base (early 50s) was commanded by an Army General who couldn't be a base commander if he was part of an Air Force Base. The Dept of Defense was not created until 1947 and competition between the Services was intense (This hasn't changed much but cooperation is better.) The Army was still stinging from losing the Army Air Corps to the newly created Air Force. Manzano, as a special weapons facility, had both Air Force security Police and Army personnel as shown by the orders cut by an Army Commander detailing two Air Force Sergeants to take an AF PFC to an Air Force Prison. The same set of orders sent two Navy men to Norfork VA.
Hope this paints some background for you.
Read: " The B29 in Weather Reconnaissance" by Tom Robison (BugCatcher Missions)
About Operation Sandstone in 1948. Major, eventually Colonel Fackler, dreamed up the Bugcatcher missions and was tasked by Major General John Mills, Commander of the AF Special Weapons Command, which became the AF Special Weapons Center at Kirtland AFB. (Sandia Base was adjacent to Kirtland AFB and merged with Kirtland AFB in 1971. Manzano Storage was part of Sandia and also merged into Kirtland AFB) Col Fackler died in 1986 from a type of Brain Cancer at 71 years of age. He suffered from a type of brain cancer that "could be triggered by radiation exposure. His family believed it was from many years of of sampling flights through radiation clouds. http://www.awra.us/gallery-feb07.html
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Feb 1, 2021 5:47 PM (in response to William Brame)Hello William Brame
I empathize with your loss, I would recommend that the survivors and all other working with AEC/DoD, DASA, AFSWP should File a claim with the VA
The VA will asks DoD’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) to confirm Atomic Veterans participation in U.S. atmospheric nuclear tests from 1945 to 1962, and the occupation forces of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, through a program called the Nuclear Test Personnel Review. VA will also asks DTRA to provide the actual or estimated radiation dose received by a Veteran when necessary for all DASA/AFSWP AEC/DoD instillations
https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/radiation/how-va-confirms-exposure.asp
AEC/DOD DASA instillation staffed with AFSWP personnel a top secret military combat branch of the Armed Services the radiation group. Please check this link https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004710.pdf for confirmation.
Here is a little something The Killeen Base Oral History Project
http://www.nicap.org/docs/541001killeen_oralhistory.pdf
and Clarksville
https://www.atomictraveler.com/Clarksville.pdf
HISTORY OF THE CUSTODY AND DEPLOYMENT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS
http://nautilus.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/306.pdf
"Presentation to MJ Kelley on Fundamental Research at Sandia" (1957)
https://prod-ng.sandia.gov/techlib-noauth/access-control.cgi/2011/115462.pdf
VOLUME III A HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION 1952-1960
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/6150636
HISTORYOFAIR FORCE ATOMIC CLOUD SAMPLIN
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16383792.pdf
Thank you for your service
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 1, 2021 5:30 PM (in response to William Brame)Hello William Brame,
Thank you for this historical background information. You mentioned the Veteran who had identified the DT60/PD Personnel Dosimeter as the one he had worn. You also mentioned the reluctance of individuals involved in special weapons to talk about their service.
Many years after we had been married, my late husband told me he had loaded, transported, and unloaded Nuclear Weapons (bombs) while stationed at Manzano Base (late 1965-1967). He also told me that Nuclear Weapons (bombs) had been stored in bunkers under the mountains at Manzano Base.
I had asked him if he had to wear a dosimeter film badge while at Manzano ( job duty there: Weapons Handler). He said he hadn't been required to wear one. He mentioned that someone would come to the Base to check for radiation. Having worked in hospitals as a Registered Nurse, I knew how cautious hospitals were about radiation; so, I had been shocked my husband hadn't been required to wear a dosimetry badge.
Even though my husband had talked about his time at Manzano, through all the years he had never said anything about working with Nuclear Weapons. I had no idea Manzano had been a Nuclear Weapons Base.
In a request, after my husband's death, to the AF Radiation Exposure Registry for any radiation exposure monitoring records he may have had during service, there was one DD 1141 for a 3 month period at Manzano Base during 1967. The report was negative for alpha-beta gamma radiation. The monitoring device he had worn was a DT-60/PD badge.
An AF Memorandum, in regard to the DT-60/ PD badge my husband had worn, stated that "historically many Air Force personnel at nuclear capable units were issued the DT-60 accident dosimeters to their workers for medical readiness purposes to measure exposures in unlikely occurrence of a high radiation exposure, e.g. nuclear criticality, These devices were only capable of recording high exposures and were not sensitive to occupational-level exposures. The AF Safety Center is unaware of any event where these devices were used to establish radiation-exposure for individuals. Since the US has never experienced a high radiation exposure from a fielded nuclear weapon, records of exposures recorded by these devices are of no benefit today."
My husband's military records do not indicate why he was monitored for that 1967 3 month period.(His military records also show he had worked with radioactive isotopes at the base he was stationed before Manzano. Apparently, radiation monitoring hadn't been required there either).
My husband wouldn't have been considered a Nuclear Veteran; because, he didn't enter the service until Sept. 1963. It wasn't until after his death that I started an internet search on Manzano Base. It wasn't an easy find. But, it lead me to information (through my searches, and the many great reference sources I have been given) that has provided me with a frame of what the 1960s military era (and 1950s, 1970s) was like.
I remain puzzled, however, as to how it would have been determined that a Weapons Handler at a 1960s Nuclear Weapons Base would not have been required to be monitored for radiation exposure. I haven't run across that information yet.
The historical background information you provided was very interesting; and, I thank you for it.
My Best To You, Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Feb 3, 2021 10:17 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
Where was your husband station before Manzano Base?
Also, when you file your claim with the VA, attached a copy of the letter from the Secretary of Defense dated 1969, which established Manzano Base as a AEC/DoD DASA installation with AFSWP a top secrets combat Branch (The Radiation Group) of the Armed Services and his cause of death, should be enough to file or reopen a claim. The Secretary of Defense letter explains that Manzano Base is not an Air Force Base
Manzano Base is an AEC/DOD DASA instillation staffed with AFSWP personnel a top secret military combat branch of the Armed Services the radiation group. AEC/DOD DASA/AFSWP makes them Department of Energy (DOE) employee
The letter filed as new evidence, ionizing radiation
https://www.va.gov/disability/eligibility/hazardous-materials-exposure/ionizing-radiation/
- Did tasks like those of a Department of Energy (DOE) employee that make them a member of the Special Exposure Cohort (See 42 U.S.C. 7384L(14))
https://www.va.gov/disability/how-to-file-claim/
Thank you for your service
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 4, 2021 10:40 AM (in response to louis mabra)Hello Louis,
My late husband had been stationed at Keesler AFB (1963-until late 1965) in Mississippi, prior to Manzano.
I will follow your advice about the letter from the Secretary of Defense. There are several of your reference articles I plan to add also.
I appreciate the 2 references you provided on the Armed Forces Medical Symposiums held in 1961 & 1962. Each symposium listed their topics and speakers. It would be interesting to know if any speakers from either meeting made their presentation information available. The speakers have impressive biographies that have lead to some good search material.
I am always glad to get your references; and, I hesitate to say when I will think I have all the information I need. Each reference I receive through History Hub always adds information that is very helpful; and, that I wouldn't have found on my own. However, I think I do need to catch up on reading what I have received; and, I'm attempting to get an understanding, in the simplest possible layman's terms, about radiation dose, effective dose equivalent, absorbed dose, etc, etc.
Thank you again for your help.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Feb 4, 2021 6:30 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
First History of AFSWP
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004113.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004119.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004121.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004122.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004123.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004124.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004125.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004126.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004127.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004128.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004129.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004132.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004134.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004136.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004214.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004215.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004544.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004545.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004546.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004547.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004548.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004549.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004551.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004552.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004553.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004554.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004556.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004557.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004576.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004605.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004612.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004654.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004655.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004465.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389033.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389035.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389037.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389041.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389090.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389048.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389064.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389090.pdf
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389267.pdf
Atomic Technical Training
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16016912.pdf
Semi-Annual
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16072294.pdf
Radiation Review Master List
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004610.pdf
Notes from Semi-annual Histories of Field Command, DASA, 1958 thru 1962
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16022923.pdf
MEMORANDUM 1947
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389322.pdf
General Order 8
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004306.pdf
Mission and Responsibilities of the Officer-in-Charge 1956
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16016937.pdf
MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE DIVISION OF MILITARY 1968
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16365493.pdf
AFSWP reports have fun enjoy the read
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 11, 2021 9:30 AM (in response to louis mabra)Hello Louis,
I wanted to touch base with you to let you know that I am reading the pdfs on the AFSWP history and other reports you sent on Feb 8. It will probably take me a while to get them read; but, I am grateful to you for sending them.
Before I began reading the AFSWP history pdfs, I skimmed through them all. There was one pdf that included reports on each AFSWP base. (I don't remember which pdf it was without going through them all). A Table of Contents on one of the pages in that pdf listed a Volume that contained a Manzano Base report. I wondered if you would know where I could find that Volume report?
Thank you again for your help.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Feb 11, 2021 10:47 AM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marily Kirkley
All Volume on Manzano Base are Top Secrete you may need to make a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for a specific Volume
I will look to see if I can fine more on Manzano Base
Here is something about OAK RIDGE
https://inldigitallibrary.inl.gov/PRR/93933.pdf
Three Mile Island
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1465985
Defense Intelligence Agency At the Creation 1961-1965
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a578664.pdf
Resident’s Message to Congress - 17 Feb 54
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16006054.pdf
STATEMENTBY THE ACTING SECRETARYOF DEFENSE
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16380703.pdf
Thank you
Louis Mabra
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Marilyn Kirkley Feb 12, 2021 12:16 AM (in response to louis mabra)Hello Louis,
I think I will submit a FOIA request to see if I can get the Volume on Manzano. I'll need to look through the AFSWP history pdfs to see what the Volume number was; and, also see if any Volume numbers are listed for Manzano in the other history pdfs.
Thank you for the references you sent . Again, I appreciate your help.
Marilyn Kirkley
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Feb 25, 2021 3:13 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
The privilege is all mine, let me know if you need any additional information
Thank you for your service
Louis Mabra
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Jun 24, 2021 1:52 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)Hello Marilyn Kirkley
You had mention radiation doses for Manzano Base; this study was done in 2013
Site Profile for Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and the Tonopah Test Range, Nevada
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ocas/pdfs/tbd/snlnm-r1.pdf
The VA should be using this CDC site profile.
Thank you
Louis Mabra
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
Don Flood Apr 12, 2021 2:34 PM (in response to Marilyn Kirkley)I was stationed at Manzano from 1968-1972 working security.
I have been diagnosed with chronic lymphomaMy Oncologist has written two letters to the VA stating my disease could have been caused by my time at Manzano.
I am on the docket for a hearing with the VA and am looking for any information that might help my case.
We were not supplied with any type of device to monitor our exposure.
Having worked in that underground facility for 3 1/2 years, breathing the air that was trapped inside, where the plutonium was stored, it makes sense to me I could have some exposure.
Any information that can help me will be appreciated.
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Oct 13, 2021 3:39 PM (in response to Don Flood)Hello Don Flood
When you were station at Manzano Base you were not in the Air Force you were part of the AFSWP and assigned to HQ or HQFC Manzano Base.
Manzano Base along with several others bases are AEC/DOD DASA instillation with AFSWP a combat operational group of the top secret military expeditionary branch of the service the radiation groups. Please check this link https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004710.pdf for confirmation.
The sectary of defense is explaining to a general what Manzano Base a AEC/DOD instillation with AFSWP operational and DASA oversite.
Also, note several DoD directive that will help in your understanding of top secret and the need to know:
DoD Directive 5210.2 "SECURITY, ADMINISTRATIVE SECURITY" - Establishes a "Need to Know" before any relevant information can be disclosed.
A long with DoD Directive 5105.31 "Administrative Arrangements for the Defense Atomic Support Agency" https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004735pdf
Flow chart - https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16389023.pdf
For the above mention reason, Manzano Base, AEC/DOD, DASA/AFSWP and the several hundred thousand veterans that worked for them are not being acknowledged.
The Defense Nuclear Agency (DNA) will refer the VA back to the Air Force, Army, Navy or Marine Corps for what those servicemen did while station at a DASA/AFSWP HQ, HQFC. This of course is due to top secret nature of AEC/DOD, DASA/AFSWP.
Both the DNA and the other service branches can only speculate as to the nature of your job duties.
Let's say you worked for the Air Force before the Air Force came into existence and it was designated a Top Secret Military Branch of the Armed Services; also, the other branches (Army, Navy and Marine Corps) of the services top 10% could be ask to be part of this top secret military branch.
Those that accepted this assignment into an expeditionary force will retain their previous uniform, ranks and insignia and organizational structure and they are assigned to HQ or HQFC of this top secret branch, which no one is aloud to talk about under penalty of treason.
Something alike to early Christianity you had to be of the Jewish fate before you could be a Christians.
So when the VA asked the Air Force what you did for them. The Air Force will state I don't know ask previous branch of service and this is what happening to you.
I would recommend to file with the VA that you were in the Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Corps and that you are filing as AFSWP for the time stationed at Manzano Base. Provide them with this letter from the Secretary of Defense https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16004710.pdf as new evidence.
Good luck and thank you for your service.
Louis Mabra
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Re: Seeking information on Manzana Base, NM
louis mabra Sep 30, 2021 11:52 PM (in response to Don Flood)Hello Don Flood, Marilyn Kirkley and all other AFSWP / DASA
The VA has finally accepted assignment location to any of several HQ or HQFC AFSWP / DASA complex as automatic claim qualification.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/owcp/energy/regs/compliance/law/SEC-Employees
AFSWP are employees of the Department of Energy
Thank you for your service.
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