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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 7, 2019 9:20 AM
2 people found this helpfulGood detective work Henry! You've had an experience that I think a lot of documentary editors have at one time or another. You've been transcribing something one way for a while, and then finally realize it's not what you thought. A Matron's Whist Club--pretty cool. Whist is a brainy undertaking, from what I understand. You've done the right thing in raising this point here. Can you by any chance paste a link or two to examples of these pages? Maybe you can find an editor buddy here on History Hub, who can look out for these things. To grab a specific page link, go to your Account Profile, and click on a relevant page, then share the link over here on this thread.
All best,
Victoria
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulHi Victoria. Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to find those pages. I have over 1400 actions on her pages so it would take too much time to go through them all. What would help is if we could edit our own transcriptions after submitting for review. I'm sure others have had the same experience where you submit a page and later find a page where a word is more clearly written. I hope all is well for you and your colleagues with the shutdown.
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulHenry, I've had that experience, too. In an effort to prevent that happening in my own work, I had to change my approach. At first, I would transcribe a page, and then as soon as I was done, submit it for review. Then I had the experience of realizing what a word was that I'd at first misunderstood or left as question. Now if I have a page with a mystery word, then I don't send it for review until I have transcribed all pages of the document. Sometimes, after going back and rereading it as a whole, I found that the word would suddenly make sense. It's the funny way the mind works, or at least the way mine does.
I know your example works across many documents, and it makes me wonder if I should hold back more documents until all hope of figuring out the mystery word is gone. But then I realize that sometimes I just have to let it go and hope the reviewer can figure it out.
I hope that in the future, the developers create a way for someone to open up a document again when there has been a mistake that is discovered after the document has been submitted for review or after it's been completed.
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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 7, 2019 1:45 PM
Hello, yes, this is a request we've seen a few times already and have logged as a bug on GitHub, where we keep track of the code for the project.
I like your idea of transcribing a whole document before submitting it for review. That seems very sensible. So long as you save as you go, and certainly before you open a new page, your work won't be lost. But trusting the reviewer is also a good instinct! Hopefully, between these strategies and improvements to review in the coming months, the experience will be more fluid and enjoyable.
-Victoria
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Re: Correcting Errors
2 people found this helpfulThe problem for me,Julianne, was that I thought I knew what the word was and later realized I was wrong. I had suggested to Victoria that we have a way to re-edit our pages after submitting for review. It would require their techs to devise a process where the system recognizes us as the transcriber, allows us to edit but does not allow us to approve, in my humble opinion. Your suggestion is good. Now when I am not sure about a word, I save the document but don't submit and check subsequent pages to see if it is there. If so, I correct my saved document and then move on. As Victoria said we may have to rely on the reviewer but to be honest, I have been doing this for over 2 months and not bragging but I almost feel like an expert on MCT's handwriting so I would prefer to review my own earlier transcriptions. Finally, I almost wish we could have a room at LOC and sit with others so we can check each other's work and ask questions when we get stuck. Nice talking with you.
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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 9, 2019 5:34 PM
Thanks for your kind messages Henry, and for your thoughtful replies. I love the idea of an in person get together. We're actually trying to devise a program of in-person transcribathons to do exactly this. We'd love to support the local DC community, but also to provide documentation for volunteers all around the world who want to host their own transcribathon. Watch this space for sure! When we've revamped the documentation and established some dates in the calendar, we'll be letting you all know!
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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 9, 2019 5:38 PM
I thought it would also be helpful to link to this other discussion where editing one's on transcriptions post submission was raised. Also, Henry, we're thinking of a solution very like what you described. -Victoria
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulGood to know. On other thing. I tried copying and pasting a link to show someone a page they may have been interested in but it wasn't possible to do. It was someone who was interested in MCT's documents in French. It would be nice to be able to send each other links perhaps to ask for help with words in a document but if we cannot copy and paste, it is not possible. Thanks for your help, Victoria. Are you not effected by the shutdown?
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulOh! I've been wanting to engage in this question!
Julianne, when I started, I began doing what you're doing, which is to have a few things open and in progress, but at some point it seemed that I was holding things up, or it seemed as if someone else had jumped on, and I got confused and stopped doing that.
Is it possible for two people to pick up a "work in progress" and move it along? Is the file locked if someone is actively in it?
I intend to go with my gut and try it again. As a neophyte, who knows what I did back then! I might not have been logged in, or I might have inadvertently closed it, sent it to review, who knows!
I very much like Henry's suggestion of being recognized as the transcriber. Goodness knows I blush at my first few transcriptions where I... oh, I won't even admit to what I did..!!
I was also mulling the idea of having groups that review each other's work. This would be especially helpful in moving something along when the transcript is clean except for a word or two. To be able to pass it on to an individual just for that final check would speed up some easy "completes".
Suz.
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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 11, 2019 12:25 PM
1 person found this helpfulHi Suzanne,
A page is only locked when someone has the tab open and has made a save within the last 10 minutes. If you enter text, click save, and then navigate away from the page it will become free within 10 minutes.
As for attribution Henry Rosenberg, we think it's important for volunteers to be able to see what they have transcribed in their own profile, but that many people prefer privacy and the chance to learn as they go. Attribution might make that awkward or lead to unhelpful back and forth between volunteers who develop a distrust of one another's work--this happens in a lot of online spaces unfortunately. That said, we might be able to implement the option for people to display their identification as transcribers on their work, if there was high demand down the line. We might be able to discover if there were demand via a survey. This would take a lot of careful thought and testing. We'll be sure to involve you and other volunteers if and when the time comes.
The community managers have been chatting about your wonderful threads here on HH and want to encourage your ideas of asking one another to review your transcriptions and of looking out for things that are of particular interest to one another. Perhaps a buddy system or interest group is in order? We leave it to you to design that in whatever way best meets your needs. We're happy to help if there's anything we can do.
Happy transcribing and reviewing!
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulHi Victoria- I'm not sure I was asking for attribution. I'm happy to do the work without recognition.
I agree there could be a lot of back and forth. I have seen documents I transcribed earlier that were reviewed,edited and submitted for review. When I came across them, either I made an error that was not corrected or the reviewer made an error correcting something I transcribed and I corrected it again. I can imagine me and my reviewer getting into a disagreement.
However, if I could copy and paste something on this site to ask a question to a participant or moderator, it may be helpful. Some words truly stump me and some take time to get. Also, the chance to review my own submitted transcriptions, would alleviate the problem of when it comes to me later.
I have had a similar reaction as Suzanne. I would rather submit for review than hold up the transcription and leave it as in progress. I have seen some "in progress" where the transcriber seems to have become frustrated and gave up and others where they pretty much had it down and should have submitted it.
Sorry, if I am going on too much. We are all having a great time doing this, appreciate what you are doing and the fact that we are contributing to making these documents available to the public.
I recently saw where Mary Church Terrell saw Charles Lindbergh at the Temporary White House after his transAtlantic flight. First, I didn't know the White House was being renovated in 1927 and found it interesting how much of a hero worshipper she admitted to being. One other item I saw from 1908. She was called the "n" word on a trolley, confronted the man who said it and slapped him. Her struggle for civil rights was incremental and it has been interesting watching her grow and gain the confidence to do such a thing.
Stay well, Henry
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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 11, 2019 5:38 PM
That story you shared about MTC is so moving Henry, thank you for sharing it. If you happen to remember the link and can share it here, that would be amazing. The best way to do that is to type everything you want to say, and then highlight a relevant couple of words and click on the link button in the comment box. That will let you turn those words into a link without the site freezing, which it unfortunately does if you just copy straight into the box. We hope that will get fixed soon.
I'm signing off for the weekend, but thank you to everyone who joined in the discussion this week! Lauren Algee
will be answering questions and tweets etc next week. I'll pop up to read your delightful comments. Thanks everyone for your incredible generosity and good humor.
-Victoria
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Re: Correcting Errors
These are the incidents I referred to previously. At least now I know how to post links.
The "N" word incident is from July 27 1908 and continued on July 28 1908.
She saw Lindberg at the temporary White House.
Interesting stuff.
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Re: Correcting Errors
I tried those links, but they don't work. The links are missing the colon after https. Henry, did you copy and paste the link? I know you can't copy them into the dialog box, but you probably can when you use the link icon in the toolbar.
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Re: Correcting Errors
Julianne-
I'll try again. Try these links. Let me know if they work.
Thanks, Henry
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Re: Correcting Errors
Julianne-
I'm pretty sure I copied and pasted after clicking the link icon. I'll try again. Let me know if this works. I want to make sure I can send links if need be. Thanks.
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulThank you, Victoria.
That clears up some early confusion. I had kept a doc (or two) open figuring I'd be able to decipher a couple of things once I got used to the penmanship and did some research on a name.... I did figure things out in the end, but when I went back the copy and the status had both changed, and my hands were tied. Especially since I didn't think the edit was correct.
After following some of these threads, I now know I could go back (if I could find it!) and add tags...
These threads are certainly helpful... and if I haven't mentioned it before, the "You've Got This! Start typing!" in the copy window is a great way to encourage newbies to do it. If it didn't already interest us, we wouldn't be snooping around, so thank you for throwing out the welcome mat with such bright enthusiasm!
Suz.
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 note/comment about only "catching" a mistake after finishing work on a page: I recently -- after working on a page seemingly written by Myer Samuel Isaacs (1841) -- in his role as Secretary of the Board of Delegates of American Israelites (a Jewish organization which now no longer exists) and (a bit thoughtlessly) transcribing the middle initial as "J." (largely because the Library of Congress description of the document attributed it to "Myer J. Isaacs"
) , I used Google to look into Mr. Isaacs and his name, and found that the middle initial should have been "S".As it was too late for me to do anything else to signal that I had made an error, I Tagged "Myer S Isaacs".
EthanFromBellmore (in New York City).
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Re: Correcting Errors
2 people found this helpfulIf you post a link to the page, one of us can fix it asusming it has not been approved.
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Re: Correcting Errors
My post with the link to Mr. Isaacs's letter was truncated because (somehow) after I copied the link, it seemed that I couldn't add any more text to the post.
Again, Thanks.
EthanFromBellmore (in New York City).
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Re: Correcting Errors
I just reviewed and approved. However, afterwards I realized I could not remember what your concern was because it looked good to me. Without thinking I approved it. I had second thoughts and I went through the thread after and unfortunately I approved it the way you wrote it. I'm so sorry. You can mark me as unhelpful.
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulHenry,
I just read these posts, and you made me laugh!
Perhaps we should(!) request an "unhelpful" tag.
I think we'd be more likely to tag ourselves than others!!
Chortles,
Suzanne.
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Re: Correcting Errors
Hi Suzanne- Glad we can give you a good laugh.
I apologize if this is a duplicate. I was working on a response but something happened.
With the change made by your tech group which allowed us to correct our submissions, I was able to correct the mistakes(and others) that I mentioned in my original post. Unfortunately that doesn't help Ethan.
Also, I wanted to spread the word that I have completed all of the Mary Church Terrell diaries from 1905-1951 except for a little I still need to do in 1936. I'm mentioning this so maybe we can get others to review, to accept or edit. I would be willing to review other's work if they can tell me what they were working on. We seem to be making good progress and was curious what the moderators thought and if you had any suggestions for us.
Thanks, Henry
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Re: Correcting Errors
1 person found this helpfulThanks, Henry (or Mr. Rosenberg) for the offer to have someone fix the transcription of the initial in the letter in question (in the scan, the middle initial does look ambiguous, but Internet research -- and notably the following page: digifindingaids.cjh.org/?pID=109199 -- tells me that the writer of the letter was Myer Samuel Isaacs (1841-1904) ).
The letter -- which is at this moment "Submitted for Review" -- can be found here: https://crowd.loc.gov/campaigns/letters-to-lincoln/1863-civil-war-emancipation-proclamation-and-gettysburg-address/mal21…
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Re: Correcting Errors
I just wanted to apologize again. I saw the notification for your response but the way these threads work, it makes it hard to find the response within the thread. So, I went to my notifications which only showed the link to the transcription and by the time I got there I had forgotten you wanted something corrected and I simply reviewed it. The document looked right to me so I approved it. I feel like an idiot and just wanted you to know how badly I feel.
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Re: Correcting Errors
2 people found this helpfulDear Henry Rosenberg (or Henry),
Please don't "feel like an idiot" -- and I won't mark your replies as not "Helpful".
If I had not used Google to do external (what I'm using in this sentence to mean "outside the original document and its accompanying Library of Congress description") research on Mr. Myer Samuel Isaacs, I would probably have found no reason to alter that ambiguous-looking middle initial in Mr. Isaacs's "cover" note; after all, I already posted that I transcribed it as a "J." before doing that research -- and only afterward added a tag of "Myer S Isaacs".
(If the signature had been "Myer Samuel Isaacs", transcribers would probably have had read the 1st letter of "Samuel" as an "S". [Shrug])
I hope that the Library of Congress might at some point alter the initial in the description -- and (somehow) alter the initial in the transcription.
If I can, I will add a "Myer Samuel Isaacs" Tag to the document transcription.
Better luck next time, Henry, and Thanks for taking the time to work on the document in question and post to me twice.
Bye for now.
EthanFromBellmore (in New York City).
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Re: Correcting Errors
V. Van Hyning (formerly of By the People LOC)
Jan 23, 2019 10:41 AM
I just want to thank you both for your cordial and helpful exchanges here. Don't worry Henry, these things happen! It may be that we will be able to make changes to completed transcriptions in future using the administrator functions in By the People, but this functionality is not yet available to us. We'll try to keep a note of this though, in case we can make the update.
In any case, happy transcribing and reviewing, and chin up!
-Victoria
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