8 Replies Latest reply on Mar 3, 2021 9:36 AM by Ceri McCarron

    Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel

    Mark Thickpenny Wayfarer

      I am seeking the military history of Edward Henry Vogel. His Service Number was 1680014; He was born on 4/3/1889; Enlisted  on 2/24/1918; PFC Vogel served in Co C, 308 Infantry, 77 Division ; Discharged on 5/9/1919; He died on 11/18/1957.  Was he part of 1574th Infantry Brigade?  Was he part of "Lost Battalion"?  Thank you. [also see Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel (cont.) ]

        • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
          Elliot Schneider Ranger

          Mark,

           

          Here is some information. While universally known as the "Lost Battalion", this force actually consisted of companies from 4 different battalions - A, B, C Companies of the 1st Battalion, 308th Infantry Regiment (1-308th Inf); E,G, H companies of the 2nd Battalion 308th Infantry (2-308th Inf); K Company of the 3rd Battalion of the 307th Infantry Regiment (3-307th Inf); and C, D Companies of the 306th Machine Gun Battalion. All of these companies belonged to the 154th Infantry Brigade of the 77th Division and with a strength of approximately 545 men was a battalion-sized force. Major Whittlesey was the battalion commander of 1-308th Inf, the senior officer present, and he assumed command of the entire force once he realized it was surrounded.

           

          Please also see link copy and paste into your web browser, look about half way down good read on about 20-30 yrs of research. https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/233-lost-battalion.html

           

          http://longwood.k12.ny.us/community/longwood_journey/modern_history/camp_upton/the_lost_battalion_archives/roster_of_the…

           

           

          1 person found this helpful
          • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
            Elliot Schneider Ranger

            Mark,

             

            Found him on the Muster Rolls. Click on Image to make larger. Not sure Why he was promoted to Sergeant  then demoted to PVT 1cl.

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            Hope this helps,

             

            Elliot Schneider

            1 person found this helpful
              • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
                Mark Thickpenny Wayfarer

                Dear Mr. Schneider,

                 

                Thank you for the additional material you provided.  Is there a single heading for all list of names or multiple headings one for each list of names you provided?  I see one Heading indicating "Correct as of the last day of July 1918".  If headings are different per list, would you kindly provide them to me?

                 

                Can we find if EH Vogel was in the 1st Battalion's Company "C" or in the 2nd Battalion's Company "C"?  I think that will answer my primary question.

                 

                It is interesting on the last list that includes two "Absent sick in hospital" that Edward Vogel now has a middle initial "R" instead of "H" but the same serial number - 1680014.  Military slip.

                 

                Lastly a technical question- Does the U.S. Veterans Bureau  Mail and Record "Index Card" showing his rank as Pvt 1c indicate his rank entering military service or leaving it?

                 

                Mr. Schneider thank you for your cooperation and investigative search on my behalf.

                 

                Mark C. Thickpenny

                  • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
                    Elliot Schneider Ranger

                    Hello Mark,

                     

                    According to the record it show that he was is Co C. 308th INF/ 77TH DIV. This would make him in 1st BN of the 308th INF. Typically Infantry unit were 3 Battalions per unit they typically ran something like this. Thus 1st Battalion would be A,B,C,D companies and 2nd BN would be E,F,G,H and 3rd BN would I,K,L,M. 

                     

                    All the sub headings of the  titles of the Rosters showed him in Co. C 308th INF

                     

                    To answer your your question about VA Index card that would be the final rank he received upon discharge.

                     

                     

                     

                    • Headquarters, 77th Division
                    • 153rd Infantry Brigade
                      • 305th Infantry Regiment
                      • 306th Infantry Regiment
                      • 305th Machine Gun Battalion
                    • 154th Infantry Brigade
                      • 307th Infantry Regiment
                      • 308th Infantry Regiment
                      • 306th Machine Gun Battalion
                    • 152nd Field Artillery Brigade
                      • 304th Field Artillery Regiment (75 mm)
                      • 305th Field Artillery Regiment (75 mm)
                      • 306th Field Artillery Regiment (155 mm)
                      • 302nd Trench Mortar Battery
                    • 307th Machine Gun Battalion
                    • 302nd Engineer Regiment
                    • 302nd Field Signal Battalion
                    • Headquarters Troop, 77th Division
                    • 303rd Train Headquarters and Military Police
                      • 302nd Ammunition Train
                      • 302nd Supply Train
                      • 302nd Engineer Train
                      • 302nd Sanitary Train
                        • 305th, 306th, 307th, and 308th Ambulance Companies and Field Hospitals
                    2 people found this helpful
                      • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
                        Mark Thickpenny Wayfarer

                        Dear Mr. Schneider,

                         

                        Back with you for one last time on the Edward Henry Vogel subject.  I appreciate your cooperation and patience with me.

                         

                        I went through all the materials that you provided to me, and all that I had found online, including "Roster of the Lost Battalion, History of The 308th Infantry", by "L. Wardlaw Miles 1927 Names of the Officers and men of the Lost Battalion".  I could not find him anywhere despite all the facts that you have provided, especially the last one regarding the 1st Battalion in which he was a member of Company C, 308th Infantry.

                         

                        In the Miles material on Page 271 below the "APPENDIX" is a separate paragraph stating "These lists of names, collected in France during March and April, 1919 are only fairly accurate, as many officers and men were still scattered about in hospitals, or had been sent to other Divisions...The list of killed, captured or missing is not complete."

                         

                        EH Vogel must have already been sent to other Divisions.  Must be so since we know he returned to the States and was discharged on May 9, 1919.  Can you locate his Discharge Paper(s) from that date?

                         

                        I ask again if you would kindly copy the "headings" of the four 'Muster Rolls" in which he is identified.  It assists me in knowing and understanding his service rank progress from initially a Private, then Corporal and then Sergeant.  Perhaps his Discharge Paper might provide the answer to your comment regarding the "Pvt 1c" on his U.S. Veteran Bureau Form 7202 Index Card.

                         

                        Lastly, and I promise not to bother you further, the Muster List that has 4 columns - his name; Fed 24-18, blank, his SN 1680014 and beside it is "Aptd Cpl fr Pvt RSO(?) 36 Apl 26-18".  I think I have some notion of this phrase, but if you would kindly translate the entire phrase for me I would very much appreciate. 

                         

                        As always, sincerely appreciate your professional assistance and cooperation.

                         

                        Mark C. Thickpenny

                  • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
                    Ceri McCarron Wayfarer

                    Dear Mr. Thickpenny,

                     

                    Thank you for posting your request on History Hub!

                     

                    We suggest that you request a copy of his Official Military Personnel File (OMPF). OMPFs and individual medical reports for enlisted men of the U.S. Army who were separated from the service after October 1912 and before 1959 are in the custody of NARA's National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. In many cases where personnel records were destroyed in the 1973 fire, proof of service can be provided from other records such as morning reports, payrolls, and military orders, and a certificate of military service will be issued. Please complete a GSA Standard Form 180 and mail it to NARA's National Personnel Records Center, (Military Personnel Records), 1 Archives Drive, St. Louis, MO  63138-1002. For more information see Official Military Personnel Files (OMPF), Archival Records Requests.

                     

                    We searched the National Archives Catalog and located a series titled Records of Divisions, 1917 - 1920 in the Records of the American Expeditionary Forces (World War I) (Record Group 120) that includes the 77th Division and files of the 308th Infantry in Boxes 24-29 [P 1241-77]. For information about these files, please contact the National Archives at College Park - Textual Reference (RDT2) via email at archives2reference@nara.gov.

                     

                    Copies of most of the monthly rosters from November 1912 - 1943 for Army units are in the custody of the National Archives at St. Louis (RL-SL). For access to the non-digitized records, please contact RL-SL via email at stl.archives@nara.gov. Please note that the World War I rosters have been digitized and are available on FamilySearch.

                     

                    Due to the COVID-19 pandemic and pursuant to guidance received from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), NARA has adjusted its normal operations to balance the need of completing its mission-critical work while also adhering to the recommended social distancing for the safety of NARA staff. As a result of this re-prioritization of activities, you may experience a delay in receiving an initial acknowledgement as well as a substantive response to your reference request from [NARA Unit]. Also, the NPRC is closed except for emergencies. Currently, NPRC will continue servicing requests ONLY associated with medical treatments, burials, and homeless veterans seeking admittance to a homeless shelter. If your request is urgent, please see Emergency Requests and Deadlines. Please refrain from submitting non-emergency requests such as replacement medals, administrative corrections, or records research until NPRC returns to pre-COVID staffing levels. Please check archives.gov/veterans for updates to the NPRC operating hours and status. We apologize for any inconvenience.



                    We hope this is helpful. Best of luck with your family research!

                     

                      • Re: Seeking military history of Edward Henry Vogel
                        Mark Thickpenny Wayfarer

                        My apology in being so slow in thanking you for the two replies you recently provided to me.  Your 3rd paragraph in particular in your above response provided me the opportunity to find the numerous monthly WW1 rosters containing EH Vogel that have been digitized in NARA St. Louis.  Very helpful.  Your 2nd paragraph above mentioned the Records of Divisions, 1917-1920.  That allowed me to contact one of College Park's professionals and confirm that Sergeant Marshall E. Rose, a close Jewish friend of my father, and who became a POW in Germany, does not appear to have been the victim of or witness to war crimes conducted by his German captors during WW2 at least according to the Army Judge Advocate General War Crimes Division.

                         

                        I have half a dozen Form 180's with the good people in St. Louis.  Unfortunately, COVID continues to hinder their assistance.

                         

                        Mr. Schneider in his last reply provided a link to some pertinent information pertaining to one of my requests.  When I clicked on the link the following response appeared:

                          "403. That’s an error.

                        Your client does not have permission to get URL

                         

                        Might you be able to reexamine his note and decipher for me what information he was intending to share with me?  Would appreciate, and that would close out my research on Edward Henry Vogel's military service in WW1.

                         

                        Very sincerely yours,

                        Mark C. Thickpenny