Burial record of my uncle

Question

I want to find details of person buried in Veterans Cemetery in Long Island. His name is Patrick Joseph Cullen, born 14/03/1906 died Jan5 , 1967

Textual Reference Branch, Archives II · Answer

lizcullen 
 
 Thank you for posting your question on History Hub! 
 
 For information related to Patrick Joseph Cullen w e suggest that you request a copy of his Official Military Personnel File (OMPF) . OMPFs for those who separated from the U.S. Armed Forces before October 2002 are in the custody of NARA's National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) in St. Louis. In many cases where Army and Air Force personnel records were destroyed in the 1973 fire , proof of service can be provided from other records such as morning reports, payrolls, and military orders, and a certificate of military service will be issued. Navy and Marine Corps OMPFs were not affected by the fire. Please complete a GSA Standard Form 180 and mail it to NARA's National Personnel Records Center, (Military Personnel Records), 1 Archives Drive, St. Louis, MO 63138-1002. Veterans and next of kin of deceased veterans also may use eVetRecs to request records. See eVetRecs Help for instructions. Certain information in the records is not available to the general public without the written consent of the Veteran or the next of kin the deceased veteran. If you are the next of kin of a deceased veteran, you must provide proof of death of the veteran such as a copy of death certificate, letter from funeral home, or published obituary. For more information see Request Military Service Records . 
 
 We invite you to continue the conversation with community members on History Hub, but should you have follow up questions for the staff at Archives II, please email us at archives2reference@nara.gov so that we can assist you further. 
 
 We hope this assists you with your research! 
 
 Sincerely, 
 
 Textual Reference Archives II Branch (RR2RR) 
 [RR2RR 24-62742-SZ]

Textual Reference Branch, Archives II · Answer

lizcullen 
 
 Thank you for posting your question on History Hub! 
 
 It looks like our community members have responded to your inquiry and have provided great suggestions/answers. In addition to those suggestions, you might want to consider the information below. 
 
 The federal government does not ordinarily create or maintain birth, death, marriage, divorce, adoption, or burial records. Such records are made and kept by state and local governments rather than the National Archives. For information on these records, contact the appropriate state, territory, or local bureau of vital statistics. To locate the state or territory office to contact regarding vital records, please visit: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w.htm . 
 
 We invite you to continue the conversation with community members on History Hub, but should you have follow up questions for the staff at Archives II, please email us at archives2reference@nara.gov so that we can assist you further. 
 
 We hope this assists you with your research! 
 
 Sincerely, 
 Textual Reference Archives II Branch (RR2RR) 
 [RR2RR 24-64072-VVT]

Trajan · Answer

Not sure if it helps, but his interment file at LI National Cemetery is extremely skimpy. It lists the following info only: 
 Patrick J. Cullen 
 SGT, US Army 
 WWII 09/22/1942 - 03/01/1946 
 NOK - not related, Ann De West

Trajan · Answer

Generally, VA cemeteries will not release any info in person or otherwise, except to NOK,

Trajan · Answer

That's it, and it's not unusual. It's a simple index card that's been digitized.

Trajan · Answer

There is a significant amount of personal info on this " Patrick Joseph Cullen" interred at LI National that's available in ancestry. I think others have noted that - you have to dig! His draft card for instance indicates he had a wife, "Ann Cullen". this could easily be the Ann De West noted in the cemetery record. When a spouse remarries, they are no longer considered NOK, hence the notation "not related".

Trajan · Answer

Ditto divorced!

Trajan · Answer

All well and good, however NY and many other states will not issue vital records to anyone other than the individual or a NOK.

Trajan · Answer

You would know more than I, but I would think Patrick Joseph Cullen is a relatively common name. Can't really be sure, but the one interred in LI National that I think may be him shows up in a number of records, for instance: 
 1940 Draft Card - the WWII draft began on 1 Oct 1940. He was living in Detroit where he registered as required on 16 Oct. He was 34 at the time (the draft law required all men 21- not yet 36 to register), and had a wife, Ann Cullen. 
 1940 Census - living in Detroit, wife Ann and two children, Patrick Jr (4) and Margarite (2) 
 1950 Census - Still in MI but now Dearborn, four children, Patrick Jr (14), Margarite (12), Carol Ann (8), Mary (2). However, states under "Veteran", NO 
 I believe Ann, his wife died in 1960. Perhaps His daughter, Carol Ann is the Ann De West in the cemetery record? She would have been 27 and maybe she went by "Ann", and De West was her married name? But then she definitely would have been an NOK, hmmm?? 
 Didn't see anything so far on parents or siblings. Also, I'm thinking he ENLISTED in 1942 as they were not drafting married men at the time, especially 36-year-olds with two kids! 1944, yes! 
 OH, just noticed, his 1934 marriage cert indicates Father's name - Hugh Cullen, Mothers maiden name Ellen Burns! Does that help? 
 Perhaps others can add more, or comment.

Trajan · Answer

Good info! That record was from the P.J. Cullens grave site "T-" ID'ed ( SECTION 2Q SITE 2983). We will re-check all three of them and see what we come up with.

Trajan · Answer

Roger that! I can't speak to it now, but years ago that would even tell Navy types exactly that!

Trajan · Answer

2021 was a pandemic year. They weren't processing much then beyond urgent situations (dis and other benefits, eligibility issues, etc). At the very least you have his name, Svc Branch (Army), Svc # ( 33293459), svc Component (active), Officer or Enlisted (enlisted), dates of svc (8 Sep '42 - 1 Mar '46) - that's plenty! Make sure in the comments section you note, "request any and all available military personnel records for SGT Patrick Joseph Cullen". No guarantees as millions of records were destroyed in the '73 fire, but you will get a response.

Trajan · Answer

Curious! Where did you see that? I'm with the Legion. In years past and as recently as last year we've tried to get NY death certs of "primary" NOK of long deceased Airmen who died in the line of duty in the metro NYC area - generally for possible award purposes. NY requires proof of relationship as noted in "Requirements" section of: 
 Death Certificates - New York State Department of Health (ny.gov) 
 We've always been denied, ditto all NY vital records. We fall back on obits in the instances when proof that a NY "primary" NOK is deceased. This is not unusual. Some states are very strict (NY, PA, RI and others) others not so (FL, MA and others).

Donald Hall · Answer

Liz (and T): 
 I submitted a request for records using eVetrecs YESTERDAY and got an answer today. 
 The gentleman in St. Louis said he had previously provided this document, which is apparently all they have that survived the fire (or all they're willing to reconstruct, for our purposes) 
 I submitted the request using the information on the enlistment record I provided previously, which you said you had. It does provide us some additional key information, however. 
 First, it tells us that he was a Sergeant when he was discharged. Given that the one individual with the same birthdate you've been looking at in the Long Island National Cemetery was a sergeant, this strengthens the case that he's the same man. 
 Second, he was inducted in Ben Avon, Pennsylvania. His home address was listed as 3 Bracken Street, Paoli, Paoli County, Pennsylvania. The house is still there, although now it's apparently an upholstery repair shop. And it's big--might have been a boarding house. 
 Paoli is just across the border from New Jersey, and close to New York City. 
 He also was discharged on 1 March 1946, So now we've tied the birthdate and place on the immigration record, draft card, and enlistment record to the serial number and discharge date on the enlistment record. 
 And the rank, enlistment and discharge date, and birthdate from our other assorted records all match the information that Trajan obtained from the burial record. 
 As an aside, under his name, it had "QMC" typed and then crossed out under his name (generally an abbreviation for "Quartermaster Corps") and "MD" written in, usually short for "Medical Department." But absent his discharge paperwork or something else showing his military occupational specialty, it's impossible to confirm. 
 It also has a line drawn through "Arrived in US." I don't believe this refers to his immigration status; I believe it refers to his not having gone overseas during the war. Additionally, for previous organization or place, it says "2A," and the Second United States Army was a stateside unit responsible for manning, training, and equipping units before they deployed overseas. So that would tie in as well. 
 I'm virtually certain it is him. 
 CullenPatrickJ_QMP_33293459.pdf

Trajan · Answer

For whatever it's worth, we're in the process of re-checking the cemetery records. Although I don't believe there will be any more info than what was previously noted. That's not an unusual situation.

Trajan · Answer

Confirmed his VA digital file states the following in the fields indicated: 
 DECEDENT - Patrick Joseph Cullen 
 BIRTH DATE - 03/14/1906 
 DEATH DATE - 01/05/1967 
 RECORD CITY - New York City 
 RECORD STATE - NY 
 RELATIONSHIP - Veteran (Self) 
 NEXT OF KIN - Ann De West 
 RELATIONSHIP - Not Related 
 CEMETERY - 815 Long Island National Cemetery 
 GRAVE SECTION - 2Q 
 GRAVE ROW - 0 
 GRAVE SITE - 2983 
 INTERMENT DATE - 01/11/1967

Donald Hall · Answer

Liz, you do have information from the cemetery. It may not be directly from the cemetery, but Trajan, through some nefarious means, provided it (I suspect someone in his American Legion post "knows a guy who knows a guy") This is what he said, and it matches with the other documents. The enlistment record and the final pay worksheet. Then the enlistment record's place of birth matches that of you uncle, as does the draft card. and all of them match the information on the application for benefits form the State of Pennsylvania. If you want even further confirmation, match the signatures on the draft registration card to the application for benefits. I'd bet the match, too: 
 Not sure if it helps, but his interment file at LI National Cemetery is extremely skimpy. It lists the following info only: 
 Patrick J. Cullen 
 SGT, US Army 
 WWII 09/22/1942 - 03/01/1946 
 NOK - not related, Ann De West 
 You asked for "proof" that it was your uncle in this grave. I'm saying, as is T, as is Trajan, that it definitely appears to be. The surviving paper trail all points to it being him. 
 When I mentioned newspaper articles, I said "absent any," because we all realize that you don't have any, and most likely won't find any. There's no obituary that I was able to locate and are unlikely to find any that would help to identify where he is buried--maybe a newspaper article listing him as the winning jockey in a race, perhaps, but that wouldn't add to it. If he had gone overseas, we might find something out in a history of his unit--but he didn't. So he probably left very little, if any, mark on the history of the Army, either. 
 I'm sorry, but this is probably the best we're going to be able to do. As I said, line up the documents you have--his birth record, his immigration record, his draft registration, his enlistment record, his final pay computation, his request for compensation from Pennsylvania, and the information from the cemetery, above--when you put the documents on a table, in chronological order from left to right, you'll see what I'm talking about. 
 Too often when we work on a computer screen, we miss these connections--I do it all the time. 
 But it's there. This is him, a Sergeant in the Long Island Nation Cemetery. 
 Requiescant in pace.

Trajan · Answer

For whatever it&rsquo;s worth, Belmont Racetrack is in Elmont. Many of the tracks workers live in the area.

Burial record of my uncle

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