Burial record of my uncle

You would know more than I, but I would think Patrick Joseph Cullen is a relatively common name.  Can't really be sure, but the one interred in LI National that I think may be him shows up in a number of records, for instance:

1940 Draft Card - the WWII draft began on 1 Oct 1940.  He was living in Detroit where he registered as required on 16 Oct.  He was 34 at the time (the draft law required all men 21- not yet 36 to register), and had a wife, Ann Cullen.

1940 Census - living in Detroit, wife Ann and two children, Patrick Jr (4) and Margarite (2)

1950 Census - Still in MI but now Dearborn, four children, Patrick Jr (14), Margarite (12), Carol Ann (8), Mary (2).  However, states under "Veteran", NO

I believe Ann, his wife died in 1960.  Perhaps His daughter, Carol Ann is the Ann De West in the cemetery record?  She would have been 27 and maybe she went by "Ann", and De West was her married name?  But then she definitely would have been an NOK, hmmm??

Didn't see anything so far on parents or siblings.  Also, I'm thinking he ENLISTED in 1942 as they were not drafting married men at the time, especially 36-year-olds with two kids!  1944, yes!

OH, just noticed, his 1934 marriage cert indicates Father's name - Hugh Cullen, Mothers maiden name Ellen Burns!  Does that help?

Perhaps others can add more, or comment.

The issue is, why did he enlist in Pennsylvania in 1942 if he was living in Detroit in 1940? 

Why does it say "No" for Veteran?

Where does it list place of birth? We know the one we are looking for should say "Ireland."

If the Carol Ann listed as a daughter is the Ann De West, why would she list "none" for relationship if she was his daughter?

I think this individual is the wrong person. The information appears to be a match but doesn't withstand close scrutiny.

T . I presume we have the correct person. Patrick Cullen is a common name.  

Donald, I am surprised he enlisted , perhaps he had no choice. All his brothers and his father worked with horses. 

LIz:

He most likely was drafted. Even individuals who wanted to volunteer were told, at some points in the war, to just go home and wait until their number was called, because we didn't have enough room on the training bases for all the volunteers, so we had to time-sequence when they arrived. As were most of the people in our eight million plus man army.

And of all the records from the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Army Air Corps, there's only one who shows up as having been born in the Irish Free State on 14 March 1906. And Findagrave doesn't show anyone else with that birthday (a civilian), either. Add in the ties on the form to horsemanship and the circumstantial evidence becomes overwhelming. There's nobody else who meets the criteria, and the Sergeant buried in the Long Island Cemetery does. Absent exhuming him and running a DNA test, there's no other way of proving it conclusively.

But it's him. We're all convinced it's him.

If you don't have a birth certificate for him, some other documentation would be good to show your relationship when you request a death certificate from NYC. Maybe a church record or family bible note. Anything that will show Patrick and you dad as having the same parents. Then, your birth certificate showing you are your father's child thus, Patrick's niece. Any other documentation of Patrick's travels would help. Let us know what response you get from NYC.

Agree.

Thanks for all your help. 

FOIA sent me a 12 page document from cemetery. Lots of blank spaces which I am appealing. Cemetery does have a lot of info. Seems he was married. NOK not related, not named. Frustrating that information is there and I can’t get it. 

So was he the sergeant?

Donald, I don’t know. They withheld a lot of information. Did not say if he was Irish, no address. Said he was married but no name of wife. NOK not related but not named. Gave details of when he joined army and left. Also his funeral casket!!  Very disappointing reply. Will appeal their withholding of information. 

Well, now compare what you've gotten from other sources to what they gave you. Next of kin not related--that's what Trajan said, as well, based on his source. Was the source not there, or was it redacted (removed)? Because he gave you a name--does the other information he provided line up with what you've got on the new record?

If you're having trouble understanding the forms, you could always post it as an attachment and we could take a look at it and see what we could figure out, even absent the redacted information. Living in the states, we might understand things that might not be obvious to you.

Well, now compare what you've gotten from other sources to what they gave you. Next of kin not related--that's what Trajan said, as well, based on his source. Was the source not there, or was it redacted (removed)? Because he gave you a name--does the other information he provided line up with what you've got on the new record?

If you're having trouble understanding the forms, you could always post it as an attachment and we could take a look at it and see what we could figure out, even absent the redacted information. Living in the states, we might understand things that might not be obvious to you.

Donald, the new record just gave me his name, date of birth and death. It said he was married. Wife not named. NOK not named. It did say not related. I understand the information perfectly, They did not tell me if he was Irish or give any address. Privacy issue. The person I  thought was Patrick was single when he enlisted in 1942. Those dates were the same. Perhaps he was divorced. I don’t know. I do not understand why they would not give me information about him. They gave me Funeral details. I rang the Funeral company, now run by different family person and they do not have records for that long ago.  Record did have same serial number on his form. Feeling very tired. 

1. Donald, I should have said service number is same. 33293459. Veteran ID 3760092. Several pages just repeated this info and details of casket 

Hope I sent complete photo of some of the texts. Most pages were blank as information not given. Not sure if Command Unit Conv Hosp is where he died. Also something dated 09Jan1967??  Thanks   Liz

So, do the dates of enlistment and discharge line up with the Patrick Cullen we've been looking at, the one we KNOW was born in the Irish Free State? Because this could just further collaborate that the man buried there is your uncle, even if they did redact a lot. It's the whole trail of breadcrumbs I've been talking about. Three or four pieces of data match the PA application, and the final pay worksheet, and the enlistment record, and the enlistment record, and the draft card (maybe even more than one), and you've got your evidence. Or if enough of the available data matches what Trajan told you to confirm what he said, it could also confirm it.

Did they say his rank was a sergeant?

Did he enlist on 8 September 1942?

Was he discharged on 1 March 1946?

Was his birthdate 14 March 1906?

These are the data points you want to compare to the other data points in your file, because they can be compared with known datapoints form other documents. And no other men named Cullens in the military service of the United States was born on 14 March 1906, so if you know your uncle was born then, you don't necessarily have to have his birthplace--everything else potentially locks it in.

My only comment is the record keeping was awful back then.  It didn't improve when they (the VA) went digital with these same lousy records.

I think the 9 Jan 1967 date was someone authorizing interment in the cemetery. They had to check to make sure he fit the qualifications.

Liz:

I've looked over the forms. Some of the fields are blank because the information wasn't available, I believe. Those fields are blank. The fields where they withheld information are those that are marked (b) (6). That is a code indicating information exempt from automatic disclosure from the Freedom of Information Act.

I looked it up, and here is the definition of that code:

Exemption (b)(6) permits the government to withhold all information about individuals in "personnel and medical files and similar files" when the disclosure of such information "would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy."

It appears that the information they are withholding is third party information--the name of the NOK, who wasn't related to him. The signature (and name) of the cemetery director. 

The Social Security Number is blank because they probably never collected it. In about 1969 the Department of Defense stopped using Service Numbers and went to Social Security Numbers instead for ID purposes. Now we've moved back to a "DoD ID Number" because of identity theft.

But because the service number matches that on the PA claim form, and that form says he was born in Ireland, and the dates of entry and discharge match, we can assume that's where he was born--plus the draft card and the PA form both list Dr. Dunne as a POC and Ireland as the birthplace as well.

This just cements even further that he was your uncle.

The duplicates of the forms are probably the originals of the forms, and then the automated versions of them. And I see they included the request for a headstone that I talked about last week.

I'd be careful about the "Married" field, though. It could have been a typo; it could have been misreported. We know he was single when he filled out his draft card; we know he was single when he was discharged; we know he was single when he filed his claim with Pennsylvania in 1950; we know that the person who reported his death to the VA wasn't a relative. So did he get married--and divorced--between 1950 and 1967, as a Roman Catholic? It doesn't seem to fit. I would distrust it. But you could try searching New York marriage records between 1950 and 1967 and see if there's any record of him getting married, knowing he wasn't married in 1950, and if you do find a marriage record, search for a divorce record form the date of the marriage until the date of death. Of course, being Catholic, they might have been estranged but not divorced.

I also note there was no chaplain present at the burial, so I wonder if there was a graveside service. I've found no listing for a funeral announcement.

His final pay worksheet said "MD" under his name. I speculated that it meant "Medical Department." A convalescent center was a type of hospital where patients who were eventually going to return to the fight, but would require more than six months of rehabilitation to recover, would be sent for physical therapy and reconditioning (if they would recover in less than six months, they held them in theater until they returned to duty). I'll try to do some research to see if I can identify where, exactly that unit was--but they gave it a weird designation, not one the medics would have used.

You may not believe it, but this is great progress. It's him, I'm convinced it's him.

Most of Dad’s family emigrated to England.  Several of them divorced and remarried or lived with someone. Thanks reply.